Is a paralever front end less inclined to tuck ?

[kfrogzx7]

I've just done my 11s servoectomy and briefly tested my "new" brakes up and down my damp and dirty concrete yard, I've never before ridden a paralever boxer without abs.
I was locking the front up, at not much more than walking pace admittedly, and my first impressions were that she didn't feel as though she was going to tuck the front and go down as all my previous tele-forked bikes would have done I'm sure.
I always swore by abs once I'd experienced it and only decided on a servoectomy because my S is now my exclusively sunny Sunday / track day bike and won't be tackling any more dirty, wet and cold Scottish mountain roads
The only times I've come off in well over 40 yrs of biking ( twice, without any serious consequences ) are front end lock ups, I hate them because you're nearly always a passenger en route to the tarmac. You can catch the back, only Marc Marques can catch the front.
I'd love to think that a paralever equiped bike is safer in this respect, is it though ?

[SP250]

You will probably only have a couple of people qualified to answer that question -
Those who have smoked the front tyre on a track and got away with it.
So you may be waiting a long time for an answer..............

[kfrogzx7]

Yes, but the fewer people there are who've any experience of it I suppose might back up my first impressions ?
Anyway, I'm planning a proper test of my "new" brakes on dry roads tomorrow, but that won't include a test of the tendency to tuck I hope !!

[boxerscott]

I think you are confusing your telelever with your paralever. The paralever is the rear end transmission and wheel support. I reckon you have to tie the beast in knots to get the paralever to tuck the front. Your biggest enemy for tucking the front is when avoiding all the feckin potholes!

I have folded the front once on a Boxer, it was on a track and I was riding like a Knob.

The front end is very stable plush handling even when things get a wee bumpy under rubber.

relax, enjoy for what it is

Chris

[boxerscott]

I think you are confusing your telelever with your paralever. The paralever is the rear end transmission and wheel support. I reckon you have to tie the beast in knots to get the paralever to tuck the front. Your biggest enemy for tucking the front is when avoiding all the feckin potholes!

I have folded the front once on a Boxer, it was on a track and I was riding like a Knob.

The front end is very stable plush handling even when things get a wee bumpy under rubber.

relax, enjoy for what it is

Chris

Edit. The post title was confusing the issue you refer to re brakes, I can only imagine that whilst you were riding your abs models you were quite used to relying on your abs assistance under heavy braking! Don`t relax then, just take it easy!

[Boxered]

The front end is very stable plush handling even when things get a wee bumpy under rubber.

relax, enjoy for what it is

Chris

I can confirm that a non ABS R1100S Boxercup remains very stable under EXTREME hard braking, even on a very worn Kielder forest road
as I witnessed a couple of years ago while following Boxerscott riding like a BoxerKnob

HTH

Steve

[kfrogzx7]

Oops, very embarrassing, yes of course I meant telelever not para

I've been riding for a long time, and I can and do always relax and enjoy myself, I'm not a nervous biker seeking reassurance.
Rather it was a technical query about the behaviour of a locked up telelever front end and other peoples experiences and feelings about it.

Chris did your folded front incident seem just like a conventional fork lock up ?

It just seems to me that maybe with less front compression under heavy braking, and therefore less change to the steering geometry, perhaps skidding forwards and not sideways is a tad more likely ?

[SP250]

Kfrog

The front of an R1100S is extremely stable and you can out brake SS 600's while they are flapping about with the rear wheel 6" in the air.
The front doesn't tuck in the transition to throttle on power from letting off the brake, nor when laid over on the gas in long sweeping bends.
Where you will have issues is on muscleing it through fast direction changes - its worse than a Ducati for slow steering, hence the mod of a longer GS paralever link to raise the back of the bike to make it steer a bit quicker.
Another potential problem is you can't feel what the front tyre is doing like you can on a conventional forked bike - just trust it though, because it sticks even though you can't feel it as well.
Just a case of getting used to a different feel - if you want to see how good they are, just watch the racers abusing them in a you tube vid of the early 2000's Boxercup racing.

[Jeff Highland]

Shorter GS paralever not longer

[SP250]

Sorry Geoff

You're right shorter link - I was still asleep obviously!

[nab 301]

Rather it was a technical query about the behaviour of a locked up telelever front end and other peoples experiences and feelings about it.



It just seems to me that maybe with less front compression under heavy braking, and therefore less change to the steering geometry, perhaps skidding forwards and not sideways is a tad more likely ?

I think I mentioned this before but a good while back I was approaching a junction ( faster than I should have been) that I wanted to turn right at on a wet road with my non abs r1100s. Just as I braked I realised that there was a lot of diesel on the road . I sailed past the junction with locked wheels but remained upright . I think the excess speed actually helped me . In general I find that on (wet) corners the rear end of my S lets go before the front.

[kfrogzx7]

Rather it was a technical query about the behaviour of a locked up telelever front end and other peoples experiences and feelings about it.



It just seems to me that maybe with less front compression under heavy braking, and therefore less change to the steering geometry, perhaps skidding forwards and not sideways is a tad more likely ?

I think I mentioned this before but a good while back I was approaching a junction ( faster than I should have been) that I wanted to turn right at on a wet road with my non abs r1100s. Just as I braked I realised that there was a lot of diesel on the road . I sailed past the junction with locked wheels but remained upright . I think the excess speed actually helped me . In general I find that on (wet) corners the rear end of my S lets go before the front.

That's amazing Nigel, you were lucky to be on the right bike !! It seems to back up my feeling of what a locked up telelever might do.

[The Teutonic Tangerine]

I know Telelver does not" Dive" under braking but the spring does compress a bit.

If you look at the geometry of how the suspension works this slight compression has the duel affects of:

A) lengthening the wheelbase
B) increasing the steering head angle (making is lazier)

Both of which should reduce the propensity to "Tuck"

IMHO

[nab 301]

Our very own" Gromit" posted something on this on pelican forum ages ago .
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r110 ... metry.html

[boxerscott]

Oops, very embarrassing, yes of course I meant telelever not para

I've been riding for a long time, and I can and do always relax and enjoy myself, I'm not a nervous biker seeking reassurance.
Rather it was a technical query about the behaviour of a locked up telelever front end and other peoples experiences and feelings about it.

Chris did your folded front incident seem just like a conventional fork lock up ?

It just seems to me that maybe with less front compression under heavy braking, and therefore less change to the steering geometry, perhaps skidding forwards and not sideways is a tad more likely ?

No I did not lock up, I can do this... Too fast in, dare not use too much brake, ran wide, more lean, less track , more lean, rhs head skittering lifted front, gravel , sky, gravel, sky . First session on a track day, thankfully it was not a warm up lap! (although all signs were there that doom was impending) That said they have all crashed on that bend including Rossi,!

Perhaps a bit of front may have saved the day? Who will know, I do not wish to explore the frontiers of Knobdom anymore