VAG Cheat Device

boxerscott · Post by **boxerscott** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:00 pm

So, today speaking with a client who bought a 2 litre vw estate. Says it is getting a recall. Has not a clue what vw are proposing to do.

Neither have I, How can they now make a 2litre XXXbhp motor meet current emissions without restricting the power?

If they can do it now why the need to cheat in the first instance?

Can not see our Euro politicians getting tough with them. Probably not the same in USA

Who can you trust these days?

Blackal · Post by **Blackal** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:10 pm

I don't see it as cheating.

VW (et all) passed the test - as prescribed by each government.

For politicians to take some sort of moral high ground is the greater insult.

They were insistent on "the letter of the agreement" on the expenses theft- but now are singing a different tune.

I'd happily (and preferentially) buy the original VW.

Al

roadburner · Post by **roadburner** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:26 am

My thought is that they'll remove the software, which will increase the emissions. That leaves the issue of road fund licence, I reckon that VW will then have to pay the difference between what the owner pays and the new band that it falls into. Over the lifetime of a car that could cost VW more than they made in profit on the original vehicle

Blackal · Post by **Blackal** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:04 am

That - could well be the outcome.

It will be interesting to see if governments take advantage of the apparent Cash-cow of court and fines.

Remember the fines meted out to the supermarkets?

£50m to government coffers, nothing to consumers.............. apart from higher prices in future (cos the share dividends must be maintained)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -270m.html

(I don't read the Mail - it was the most useful headline

)

Al

Henners · Post by **Henners** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:03 pm

I am in the market for a new car and the Golf is on my list. Here in Spain where 95% of new cars are diesel the dealers are offering discounts of 17%. Taking this into account and also buying a petrol TSI means that I am sorely tempted.

boxerscott · Post by **boxerscott** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:24 pm

Our son in law also has one of the cars affected. He has written to the selling dealer asking them what they propose to do about it. Their reply was they were waiting for instruction from VW. That was a month ago.

Do not think this situation is helpful for the dealers either.

Stevie · Post by **Stevie** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:11 am

I have a Passat 2.0TDI and received the letter from VW saying that it will be recalled next year for the mod. I don't want it, and if they screw up mpg or performance, I'll be getting it chipped.

boxerscott · Post by **boxerscott** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:27 pm

Stevie wrote:I have a Passat 2.0TDI and received the letter from VW saying that it will be recalled next year for the mod. I don't want it, and if they screw up mpg or performance, I'll be getting it chipped.

I think I would be handing it back and wanting a full refund. Mis sold, sale of goods act etc

They are not busting a gut to sort it out and the law enforcers do not seem to be either.

Stevie · Post by **Stevie** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:03 am

boxerscott wrote:
Stevie wrote:I have a Passat 2.0TDI and received the letter from VW saying that it will be recalled next year for the mod. I don't want it, and if they screw up mpg or performance, I'll be getting it chipped.
I think I would be handing it back and wanting a full refund. Mis sold, sale of goods act etc

They are not busting a gut to sort it out and the law enforcers do not seem to be either.

I didn't buy it new. I'm not simple! Anyway, I like the car and how it performs, I just don't want that performance screwed up by them messing around with it, and if they do, I'll take matters into my own hands.
I usually hold onto my cars for 7 or 8 years depending on what kind of mileage I end up putting on them.

JamesL · Post by **JamesL** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:00 pm

I'll be fascinated to see how it all turns out. Luckily our trusty Passat diesel predates the emissions thing, and you can bet that the worlds politicians will milk it for all the fines they can levy.

But I do wonder how many people buy a car on the official statistics? Please tell me most people read the reviews and find out the consensus for real world performance? But as fitting defeat devices was (apparently) illegal, VW were very stupid to think they could get away with it.

Interestingly a Californian friend had her wagon recalled for a software fix way back in March... So looks like someone knew something... She reports that performance seems unaffected, particularly mpg, so fingers crossed for the rest of us.

Merecat · Post by **Merecat** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:47 am

JamesL wrote:I'll be fascinated to see how it all turns out. Luckily our trusty Passat diesel predates the emissions thing, and you can bet that the worlds politicians will milk it for all the fines they can levy.

But I do wonder how many people buy a car on the official statistics? Please tell me most people read the reviews and find out the consensus for real world performance? But as fitting defeat devices was (apparently) illegal, VW were very stupid to think they could get away with it.

Interestingly a Californian friend had her wagon recalled for a software fix way back in March... So looks like someone knew something... She reports that performance seems unaffected, particularly mpg, so fingers crossed for the rest of us.

Among other factors I chose our car on the fact that it was £0 road tax rated, although not a VW I would be mightyly pi$$ed off should i now have to pay RFL due to the manufacturer's cheating and dishonesty

kfrogzx7 · Post by **kfrogzx7** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:09 pm

roadburner wrote:My thought is that they'll remove the software, which will increase the emissions. That leaves the issue of road fund licence, I reckon that VW will then have to pay the difference between what the owner pays and the new band that it falls into. Over the lifetime of a car that could cost VW more than they made in profit on the original vehicle

Yes, but crucially it will only increase the emissions during the official rolling road test, it won't make any difference to normal road emissions / performance.

This begs the question, why the recall to modify ALL vehicles ? If a handful of modified cars are tested and the new VED band determined surely that's job done ? No need for mass recall ?

If ALL cars are to be recalled / modified it must mean VW intend to retune to meet the current VED bracket standards, that can only mean loss of performance ( either in economy or power or both ).
This later option must surely be much the most expensive for VW mustn't it ?

boxerscott · Post by **boxerscott** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:53 pm

Stevie wrote:
boxerscott wrote:
Stevie wrote:I have a Passat 2.0TDI and received the letter from VW saying that it will be recalled next year for the mod. I don't want it, and if they screw up mpg or performance, I'll be getting it chipped.
I think I would be handing it back and wanting a full refund. Mis sold, sale of goods act etc

They are not busting a gut to sort it out and the law enforcers do not seem to be either.
I didn't buy it new. I'm not simple! Anyway, I like the car and how it performs, I just don't want that performance screwed up by them messing around with it, and if they do, I'll take matters into my own hands.
I usually hold onto my cars for 7 or 8 years depending on what kind of mileage I end up putting on them.

You and countless others will also be prepared to do that Stevie, I respect that. I think that other factors need investigating like just who is setting emission targets, surely not the Politicians? they are thick as PIg Shxte, is this really a green save the planet thing? or is it the powerful men in the Industry playing the field and then scoring an own goal. Fuel in USA is a relatively cheap commodity hence why all the working class can run around in 5 litre pick ups. Uncle Sam don`t give a shxte about global warming, likewise China and Russia. Why are we so "Godly" about this and why does a major auto mobile giant treat it with contempt? Nothing will happen to VAG in Europe via the courts. They may even fit another cheat device to cheat the first one.

Herb · Post by **Herb** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:48 pm

Blackal wrote:I don't see it as cheating.

VW (et all) passed the test - as prescribed by each government.

For politicians to take some sort of moral high ground is the greater insult.

They were insistent on "the letter of the agreement" on the expenses theft- but now are singing a different tune.

I'd happily (and preferentially) buy the original VW.

Al

Al is right here! I don't know the exact wording of the law, but as I understand it, in Europe at least, a car must be capable of passing an audit, ie any vehicle could in theory be taken from the end of the production line and must pass the appropriate test.

Because the test is a known cycle the vehicle 'knows' it is being tested and uses a different software algorithm, and in some cases, makes more extensive use of emissions hardware to pass the test. After the test, or in normal use the vehicle reverts to the standard calibration.

This is a case of passing the test, but missing the point, but most probably would stand up in a court of law? This kind of thing has being going on for years, Volvo truck were caught doing this as far back as the late 80s. Most manufacturers (with the exception of BMW and JLR I think) have been suspiciously quiet.

VW could have said that their vehicles obey the law and pass the test, instead, when challenged in the US they rolled over, which I don't understand. They show have fought it, instead they admitted guilt with extreme haste?

boxerscott · Post by **boxerscott** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:11 am

Understood but cars exported to USA have to meet a different standard to say "Europe" and who are we to say that VAG should have told USA regulators to go and do one? I suspect they folded because it was damage limitation.

The cars are not solely advertised as" minimum standard compliance" ie passing a test. They go on to sell them with advertising about mpg.

They are deviant.

I suspect they will cough up in USA but nowt will happen this side of the pond (I reckon)