Hey Mr Sandbar!!

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:08 am

Recognise this place?

(not Ellen and the flight crew of course)

sandbar · Post by **sandbar** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:29 am

.

Ah yes - I remember it well

The GT model - I presume.

sandbar

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:35 am

sandbar wrote:.
The GT model - I presume.

sandbar

Of course

Still goes well for a 40yr old aeroplane.

sandbar · Post by **sandbar** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:52 am

I'll bet it does.

I never flew a GT - only the Standards and Supers.

sandbar

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:05 am

sandbar wrote:I'll bet it does.

I never flew a GT - only the Standards and Supers.

sandbar

The RAF's (C1 K's) are I believe the standard VC10 but with the Super's uprated engines? Standing chatting to the flight crew there looked like there was a lot of newer looking instruments (navigation stuff possibly?) on the instrument panel.

Only sad thing is that all the firm's 10's are now painted grey, rather than the old (and rather handsome) white with blue stripe. They go out of service in 2011.

Still, nice to have an aircraft that makes a real noise rather than sounding like a high-powered hoover, as do most modern airliners.

sandbar · Post by **sandbar** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:48 am

Gromit wrote: The RAF's (C1 K's) are I believe the standard VC10 but with the Super's uprated engines?

The Super had a bigger fuselage, wings, tail as well as uprated engines. The RAF version was (I think) standard fuselage, but with the Super wings, tail and engines. A bit like an aeronautical version of twin carbs and sports suspension - hence the GT tag

Gromit wrote:.......an aircraft that makes a real noise

Oh yes - it certainly did that

Probably a candidate for one of the best looking aeroplanes of all time - certainly the best looking airliner. IMHO of course.

sandbar

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:11 pm

sandbar wrote:
Probably a candidate for one of the best looking aeroplanes of all time - certainly the best looking airliner. IMHO of course.

sandbar

Can't disagree with that...

madman · Post by **madman** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:23 pm

The super also had a fuel tank in the fin. They all have main spars that are cracking up too. The repairs carried out were the best available at the time, but just moved the cracks inboard.

sandbar · Post by **sandbar** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:43 pm

madman wrote: They all have main spars that are cracking up too.

I seem to recall that the maintenance dept found that they were able to double the life of some of the important structural parts (maybe including main spars) because there was absolutely none of the expected deterioration when they came up for scheduled renewal. From the BOAC/BA perspective, that was obviously the right decision.

I also seem to recall that the BOAC/BA planes all went to the RAF to be cannibalised for parts. So maybe some of those spars have had a longer life than you think.

I could be wrong - of course

sandbar

madman · Post by **madman** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:22 pm

I was a team leader for some of the spar repairs, and they were on Ks and Cs. the problem was that due to the way that they were originally made, there was no way that we could do anything but butt strap them. This causes a hard spot at that position on the spar. This lead to more stress at different places inboard or outboard of the repair, which in turn lead to further repairs being carried out.
Don't get me wrong, it was one of the nicer aircraft that I have worked on, apart from the Skydrol hydraulic fluid!

sandbar · Post by **sandbar** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:20 pm

madman wrote:...it was one of the nicer aircraft that I have worked on,

It has a fascinating history. In the days when the British Government was even more under the spell of the US, three very important military planes were cancelled. If we did that, so that European countries would buy their planes from the US, including the F104 Starfighter in place of the TSR2, then the US Government would back yet another loan from the IMF.

Those three planes were the TSR2, the V1000 troop carrier and a jet trainer. There were even pictures of Sir (or was it Lord?) Anthony Wedgewood-Benn - yes now known as Tony Benn in his later more pc non-aristocratic name - actually destroying the jigs for the TSR2 to show how complete the destruction of those planes and everything connected with them was carried out. Yes even in those days the Govt. cynically understood that perception was much more important than the reality.

The trainer eventually reappeared as the Jet Provost. The TSR2, which the US was seriously scared of us putting into production, was miles better than anything the US or the Soviets had at that time. Far from what appeared in the press, the two existing TSR2s were not destroyed. One was put into a museum at Cranwell and the other was also put into storage somewhere but I was not allowed to know where. I saw the one at Cranwell a few times in the late 60s, and even then it was decades ahead of anything else

The V1000 troop carrier was sort of forgotten about, until BOAC decided that it needed an aircraft to carry 120 passengers from Nairobi to Heathrow non-stop with the ability to take off from Nairobi in the middle of the day. For those who have not been there Nairobi is hot and high - the worst conditions for max power from a jet engine. BOAC hawked the design parameters around the manufacturers. De Havilland were too busy with the Trident for BEA. Vickers originally thought that the project was too much for them - they were still busy looking after the Victor V-bombers. Somebody remembered the old design for the V1000 which was promptly dusted off, a few modifications made and there it was - the VC10.

It even had a few parts from the Victor bomber. The control column and 'spectacles' were from the Victor and so, probably, was the auto pilot.

Apparently it even flew like a military plane. It was incredibly fast in pitch and roll, although a little slow in yaw, but , by Chr*st, it was powerful.

Another silly fact. The weight of a fully loaded Super VC10 was 151 tons. That is the same weight as the maximum fuel load on the early 747s which replaced it with BA

Excuse me - I am off to have another glass!

sandbar

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:30 pm

Excellent post Mr Sandbar - enjoyed reading that.

madman · Post by **madman** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:30 am

But don't forget that much of the TSR2 technology lives on - in the Tornado! The Americans don't like that either.

Black Knight · Post by **Black Knight** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:19 pm

sandbar wrote:

The Super had a bigger fuselage, wings, tail as well as uprated engines. The RAF version was (I think) standard fuselage, but with the Super wings, tail and engines. A bit like an aeronautical version of twin carbs and sports suspension - hence the GT tag

But did it have clear indicators and heated grips?

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:40 pm

Couple of other (hopefully) interesting pics. These are of the shot-up Trident which is sat at the old Nicosia International Airport, which sits within the UN 'Green Line' between the Greek and Turkish territories in Cyprus.

It's a fascinating place - it hasn't been used since the Turkish invasion of 1974 and apart from a few broken windows, lots of crap lying around etc, the place is as it was left 33 years ago after everyone fled the attacking Turkish paratroopers. For example, all the check-in desks, coffee tables in the waiting lounge are all intact - it's really rather spooky.

Shame I didn't have my 'proper' camera with me as the place is a photographer's dream. Just got these 2 which I took with my phone...