Oil...again

Bedw · Post by **Bedw** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:51 am

No, the bike was left on the centre stand overnight and I was pouring in oil a half litre at a time wondering if there was any left in there. I've just about calmed down now. It beggars belief that anyone can keep a bike in pristine condition, lavishing money on flashy extras yet completely ignore the oil. I've just spent an afternoon replacing the rubber inserts which were supposed to be supporting the Remus silencers but which had worked loose and were lying on top of the silencers. This has made a world of difference in smoothness and I've stopped riding along wondering if the roughness was normal for a BM. The silencers must have been bouncing up and down a full inch onto solid metal supports. I think I'm getting there slowly.

sproggy · Post by **sproggy** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:37 am

Bedw wrote:No, the bike was left on the centre stand overnight and I was pouring in oil a half litre at a time wondering if there was any left in there.

The oil levels cold and hot are very different. The oil needs to be checked with the bike up to full operating temperature (i.e. after a decent ride), having been left standing for a few minutes before checking to allow the oil to settle.

If you checked the oil level the morning after your ride with the engine cold you've probably put too much in - check it now, hot, and you're likely to find that it's over the top of the glass, let alone over the 'maximum' line.

If it is over-full, what you do about it is up to you - you can either drain a bit out or leave the bike to burn it off for you (which it will do over a period of time). If it's been really over-filled some oil may get blown back into the airbox so you should check the drain plugs. If oil's been blown back you'll also find that removing the rubber bungs from the throttle body drain plugs will show evidence of oil.

scotty · Post by **scotty** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:58 am

Keeping the valves correctly adjusted and the throttle bodies synched really makes a massive difference to how the engine runs.

As for oil consumption mine is probably similar to most bikes on the site ie it uses a small amount of oil when riden around. On a recent long tour where the bike had a lot of hard motorway miles it used zero oil. Work that out if you can as it baffled me. My bike certainly uses a small amount when used for short runs.

Archie · Post by **Archie** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:12 pm

scotty wrote:As for oil consumption mine is probably similar to most bikes on the site ie it uses a small amount of oil when riden around. On a recent long tour where the bike had a lot of hard motorway miles it used zero oil. Work that out if you can as it baffled me. My bike certainly uses a small amount when used for short runs.

Maybe they use it when cold, or at low revs?

scotty · Post by **scotty** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:20 pm

It's likely that is the cause. Under long runs ie 400 miles + the pistons and rings must expand to optimum level with no oil being burnt. One generally thinks that if a bike is using oil then there is some wear in the valve, piston and rings and therefore on a long run such a bike would use a fair bit of oil. The reverse is true of my s which has only done 43K.

sproggy · Post by **sproggy** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:57 pm

scotty wrote:On a recent long tour where the bike had a lot of hard motorway miles it used zero oil. Work that out if you can as it baffled me.

A couple of years ago I did 800 miles back from the north of Spain in a day on my 1150GS (my personal best daily mileage to date, although I'll need to achieve 700 miles to Gap in a couple of weeks time on the S). Fully loaded panniers and top box, adventure screen - a bit like trying to push a branch of IKEA through the air so it was working pretty hard at 100 - 110 mph for most of the day. As you found, it didn't use a drop of oil. Sadly the same can't be said for fuel....

I wonder whether it's something to do with pressure in the crankcase/rocker covers 'equalising' at constant engine speed and therefore not drawing oil through the valve guide, past the rings etc? Or maybe you're right about the temperatures settling down in the engine so that clearances are optimal.

A couple of weeks of commuting (about 500 miles) after that blast back through France the oil needed topping up again.

Bedw · Post by **Bedw** » Fri May 18, 2007 6:50 pm

If you checked the oil level the morning after your ride with the engine cold you've probably put too much in - check it now, hot, and you're likely to find that it's over the top of the glass, let alone over the 'maximum' line.

Surely the only risk with filling a cold engine in the morning is of underfilling. BMW recommend a hot engine that has stood for five minutes because it is the only practical time to check on a run and get a like for like consistent reading. Oil will continue to drain into the sump for a considerable time as the engine cools. If you top up when the engine is cold there will be a lower reading at the recommended time.

sproggy · Post by **sproggy** » Fri May 18, 2007 7:19 pm

As someone who has no previous experience of BMW boxers you should perhaps consider listening to the advice of those who do rather than trying to apply cold logic to the matter. Between them, the people on this forum have covered hundreds of thousands of miles on R1100S's and other boxer BMWs, have done their own servicing and carried out tasks from changing a headlight bulb to stripping a whole bike. Many know their bikes inside out.

Check the oil hot, as suggested. The oil level DOES vary considerably between hot and cold. Don't question it - just accept it as being fact.

You can learn an awful lot from this forum but you have to accept that the bike you've bought is different in so many ways from those you've owned before and you may have to be willing to take advice concerning issues that, on a Honda, you would be able to deal with without a second thought. Like checking the oil!

Bedw · Post by **Bedw** » Fri May 18, 2007 8:10 pm

No-ones arguing that the hot and cold levels vary. That's obvious. All I am saying is that if you top up when the engine is cold you will underfill it, not overfill it as you stated. If you don't believe me try it for yourself.

Stevie · Post by **Stevie** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:00 pm

Do I sense a wager coming on?

sproggy · Post by **sproggy** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:13 pm

Bedw wrote:No-ones arguing that the hot and cold levels vary. That's obvious. All I am saying is that if you top up when the engine is cold you will underfill it, not overfill it as you stated. If you don't believe me try it for yourself.

I have tried it, then I listened to advice. Have you tried checking the level when the engine's hot?

Of course it's possible that your few days of experience of a BMW boxer outweigh my 8 years and everyone else's but hey, I'm sure you're more likely to be right.

If you come to a forum complaining about your bike and then won't accept advice from several experienced owners of the same model then it's your loss. I, and others, have tried to offer advice but you don't seem to want to accept it. I'm comfortable that I check my oil the right way - you do what you want.

Stevie wrote:Do I sense a wager coming on?

No, but we can put it to the vote if you want

Bedw · Post by **Bedw** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:47 pm

Lets just say you got it wrong about the risk of overfilling if the engine is cold and leave it at that. I'm sorry you seem to think I'm rattling your cage.

sproggy · Post by **sproggy** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:08 am

You'll see......

Black Knight · Post by **Black Knight** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:15 am

Would it be possible to start topping up the semi synth with mineral oil until the next change is due then obviously it will be filled with mineral?

I imagine mixing the two could cause problems? Can you confirm this?

sproggy · Post by **sproggy** » Sat May 19, 2007 1:11 pm

Black Knight wrote:Would it be possible to start topping up the semi synth with mineral oil until the next change is due then obviously it will be filled with mineral?

I imagine mixing the two could cause problems? Can you confirm this?

You won't get any problems - they'll mix fine. You'll end up with a sort of semi-semi-synth! Mineral, semi-synth and fully-synth will all mix with each other - you'll 'dilute' the synthetic characteristics but it won't do the engine any harm as long as whatever you put in is of an appropriate grade and specification.