Lack of grip from Diablos.

[Gromit]

A'noon folks.

Been doing a bit more Ohlins fiddling this afternoon - I've not been totally bowled-over by the shocks to be honest (although ride quality has improved drastically) but I'm wondering if the S doesn't like Pirelli Diablos? Julian once vented his spleen over a pair of Sportecs, and I believe the Pirellis are nigh on the same hoop. My previous S, which also sported Ohlins rear but Technoflex front, was totally planted and handled superbly on 010's.

I did my usual trip down to my local 'test track' (read: large roundabout in middle of trading estate - deserted virtually all afternoon) and set to work. The bike now steers better, and thanks to wacking the damping up a few notches from factory settings the bike feels a bit more secure. That was until the front end decided to try to tuck in on me. The bike's nowhere near its ground clearance limit, and there's still a good 2-3mm of shiny strip on the front tyre. I was on a positive throttle and the road's smooth, no oil spills etc etc. The back end still feels somewhat loose too.

I went home, jumped on the TT600 and pootled down to the same place. Christ...what a difference - loads of confidence, bags of grip not a murmur from the bike...and definitely no brown-trouser moments. It runs 010's (including a very squared-off rear).

Maybe I just don't 'get on' with the Diablo. Strange as on my Buell they were superb.

[Rods]

christ gromit i had brown trouser moments just looking at the state of your rear tyre earlier. and that wasn't just when you opened it up on the a40!
sorry the s still isn't right though.

[gus]

Hi rich
You sure you didnt go onto the shiny bit of tyre which hadnt been scrubbed in.If you were quite aggressive in chucking it over on its side then that could have been the case.My mate uses diablos and loves em,i use 010,s and love them.Its a confidence thing with tyres.
I say fit a new pair of bridgstones 010,s or 014,s and be confidently happy again!
gus
ps How high you got back set up?And what length is the front shock.
May be tits up the way the heightd affect steering geometry.Also,the back end aint squatting down is it under power is it.

[Gromit]

Gus - the bike's currently just running the standard Ohlins ride height both ends, and a GS para arm. I had a good look at the rear Diablo having made it work for a living and it's unmarked - in fact there's hardly any evidence that the tyre's been scuffed up. It does seem that the tyre's just not getting warm - pressures are 34 front 40 rear.

There's always the possibility that riding the TT's spoilt me handling-wise and the S, no matter what I do with it, will never handle as well (the Triumph is pretty bloody amazing it has to be said). It's just becoming more than a bit frustrating, that's all.

[boxerpan]

Diablos work fine for me, but if after trying a couple of different tyre pressurres you still aren't happy, revert to a tyre that you're confident with and start again.

[RiceBurner]

Gus - the bike's currently just running the standard Ohlins ride height both ends, and a GS para arm. I had a good look at the rear Diablo having made it work for a living and it's unmarked - in fact there's hardly any evidence that the tyre's been scuffed up. It does seem that the tyre's just not getting warm - pressures are 34 front 40 rear.

There's always the possibility that riding the TT's spoilt me handling-wise and the S, no matter what I do with it, will never handle as well (the Triumph is pretty bloody amazing it has to be said). It's just becoming more than a bit frustrating, that's all.

34 front???? jeeeez - I thought standard was higher than that??

[Gromit]

34 front???? jeeeez - I thought standard was higher than that??

BMW say 32 and Pirelli say 36 - 36 feels a bit skittish.

I've now got a slight ticking from the front end at low speed - it goes when the brakes are applied only to return (after a few seconds) when released. Discs don't seem warped - there's not even the slightest pulsing at the lever.

[andrew s]

Hi Richard,

Are you sure your shocks are working fine. I have Sportec's on my bike and they are well up to the job of me abusing them. As you said they are similar to Diablo's (same factory)

With the Wilbers on my bike, it has certainly made it feel so planted. If you have not sorted it out by Burton-on-Trent then have a shot of mine to see if there is a difference.I also run my tyres 35 F 40 R so your pressures are not far off.


Andrew

[Gromit]

Thanks Andrew - I've set my shocks to the same settings as Steve, who had his set by MCTechnics. He's within a kilo or 2 the same weight as me.

Sure, the bike now feels more planted than it did the other day, but somehow just doesn't feel 'right'. Definite case of leaning it over until it reaches a point where it feels like it's on marbles. What does frustrate somewhat is where my TT6 feels like it can be leant over until the mirrors touch down, the S just doesn't give me very much confidence.

[bigblackfalco]

I always ran my tyres at 37f and 40r....handling was faultless.....
BUT.......the bike will need jacking up to not apppear to push the front when you got it cranked right over!
Bailey.

[oyster]

This is interesting. I have my 010's at 33 + 36, and I feel the bike works quite well. With a 5.5" rear, I have about 1/4" untouched tread on both. And I dont ride trying to get the heads down. The new shox from EBC were well worth the effort, BUT still something is not quite right. I will try increasing pressures next time out. Methinks the tyre survey needs to consider riders preferred tyre pressures too!
And I am pleased to say that I have now reduced the travel time from Hastings to Whitstable (50 miles) to 60 minutes. Bank Holiday Friday.

[Ade B]

perhaps a silly question - you getting enough heat into them before chucking the S about - I've abandoned 'sticky rubber' on the road as I only ever once got the tyres (admittedly Pilot Sports) up to proper sticky temp after a couple of passes of the Cat & Fiddle on a hot sunny summer afternoon. I find Pilot Roads offer much better feel for normal road pootling. (inc. rain, cold days etc.)

the heat I get in the Rennsports/Racetecs on the R6 is surprising and requires a few spirited laps of a track to work properly but what a difference it makes.

compared with a sports 600 the S is a bit of a barge so its not really a fair comparison handling wise..

I'd suspect the suspension set up not the tyres is causing lack of feel - I had the R6 tweaked by the Ohlins bloke at 100% bikes and not only was there a visible difference in the suspension movement, it made massive differences to the handling under braking and on the gas.

or are you dragging a smidge of front brake to get the front to tuck?

just a thought..

Ade

[Gats]

Grom, I have Diablos on the S and not had any scarey moments with them as yet. The first real outing on them was last year's Yorkshire Dales run within weeks of getting it.
Tyre pressures were 36F/42R running a 180 on a 5" rim on't back.

As an aside (and not wanting to hijack the topic), I run Michellin Pilot Sports back in Oz (with the same pressures) and have absolutely no problems with grip, so much so the 'little fat man' is looking decidly worse for wear after the last visit.
As Ade mentions, they need to be at temperature before caning them so that's probably why they aren't liked too much here in the UK?

[m25jambuster]

For what it is worth I have found the following from my recent experiences: I have 010's on my Fireblade through choice and the Pirelli's on my SV - not through choice. I find that the 010's heat up quickly and grip well on all surfaces at most road temperatures. However I can ride the SV for up to 2 hours when out 'playing' and I get home and feel the tyres and they are only mildly warm. I wonder if they either take along time to heat up or if they just dont retain heat for some reason. When I had my 's' I only ever ran 010's on it - front and rear. I rode it all year round and at all times of the day and night to get me to and from work. I never experienced any problems with them and I was always happy running them around the 36psi front 40 psi rear mark.

[Gromit]

Many thanks for the input guys - I've just spent another interesting couple of hours out on the road, and done as much as possible to get the tyres properly warm.

I've jacked the rear preload up quite considerably (it was too low to start with) and the po-going of the back has subsided a fair amount. I think I was also trying to ride the S in the same way as the 600 - reckon this was also upsetting the bike. The little TT is just soooooo forgiving it's possible to get away with some pretty ham-fisted inputs and it'll still go round like it's on rails* (*cliche courtesy MCN).

As to the Diablos I'm fairly convinced now that the bike or I don't like them. I'm also wondering if the S is a mite too heavy for them - especially bearing mind my lard-arse in the seat? On the Buell they were fabtastic but of course that bike's a hell of a lot lighter. Reckon on a pair of 010's going on soon as I never found them to be anything less than brilliant on the S.