Car question: Fabia vs Jazz

StreetFlatTwin · Post by **StreetFlatTwin** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:07 am

What about a Seat? I have always found them to be as good (for obvious reasons) as VW or Audi and I always think they look a bit funkier than the Skoda (but are basically the same car underneath)

My wife bought a Polo in 2000 and she is still running it with little to absolute minimal servicing and it's only now after 12 years starting to have faults.

I'd say any VAG group car (ive had loads and loved them all) so this would be my 1st choice as I find the Jazz a little boring (you get a beige cardigan to wear when you buy one!!!!)

If its head over heart and your not bothered then I'd go for the cheapest!!

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:25 am

Been trawling the ads for Ibizas, which do look quite smart, but for the same age/mileage as a Fabia they're coming out quite a bit more expensive. Likewise the Polo which is asking for at least another £2k over the Skoda for what is fundamentally the same car.

brookes745 · Post by **brookes745** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:47 am

Twinspark wrote:Just to provide a balanced view - the guy next door has a Yeti 1.2TSI and loves it.

However, it's only about 6 months old, so I can't comment on the reliability.

Yep, I too have a 1.2 TSI Yeti which puts out 105bhp. The Yeti is quite a big lump and it pulls it along no problem. Informed opinion seem to be that its the best engine in the range for a town car (assuming you don't want to tow a caravan or go off road).

I've owned couple of Fabias and never had a minutes bother with them. The VAG quality shines through. My son has a Fabia Vrs with the 180bhp 1.4TSI.....goes like split s$%t!!....obviously no match for me on the bike tho..

Welshman · Post by **Welshman** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:58 pm

FWIW my wife is a driving instructor and uses a now 8 year old Jazz with 121k on the clock, which she has had from new. It's had 1 new clutch and still drives well. She had a Ford Fiesta before but there was no comparison on the build quality. The Jazz is 10x better.

Can't comment on the Skoda.

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:43 am

Welshman wrote:FWIW my wife is a driving instructor and uses a now 8 year old Jazz with 121k on the clock, which she has had from new. It's had 1 new clutch and still drives well.

That's really good going for a small-engined car, especially if it's been subject to use as a learner vehicle.

It does surprise me - shock more like - at how so many cars are failing at what one would call relatively low mileages these days, especially the latest generation of diesels which are set up (according to a friend who used to be a tech for Mercedes) on an emissions 'knife-edge' as he described it.

oyster · Post by **oyster** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:12 pm

Which is why I went for the slightly older Golf TDI ( although it has a chocolate cam shaft), no emission issues, no DPF and capable of star ship mileage.

Dai wiskers · Post by **Dai wiskers** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:23 pm

Gromit wrote:
Welshman wrote:FWIW my wife is a driving instructor and uses a now 8 year old Jazz with 121k on the clock, which she has had from new. It's had 1 new clutch and still drives well.
That's really good going for a small-engined car, especially if it's been subject to use as a learner vehicle.

It does surprise me - shock more like - at how so many cars are failing at what one would call relatively low mileages these days, especially the latest generation of diesels which are set up (according to a friend who used to be a tech for Mercedes) on an emissions 'knife-edge' as he described it.

Hit the nail on the head any learn burn motor will be a time bomb just waiting for some electrical item[sensor] to go t1ts up then remorgage your house to fix it

My Fiesta surges slightly at a fixed throttle about 2,000- 2,500 right where the diesel emission test is done i believe

Ann's i10 took about a dozen attempts to get the emisions test done due to it being near impossible to hold it between 2,500 and 3,000 revs for 30 seconds

The more i think about it the more i would recomend you going japanese and not european

Daveg2812 · Post by **Daveg2812** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:54 pm

My younger brother has just had clutch, DM flywheel and gearbox let go on his 07 plate 1.9 tdci Zafira. Even with a recon box, he ain't gonna get much change out of 2k. That's on top of the problems he had with the EGR valve and associated gubbins which cost around £800 earlier in the year.
The comment about the latest diesels being set up on a knife edge rings in my ears every time I take my car or works vans for any work. Plus we've just had the cat converter knicked off a sprinter van. Ended up being an insurance job purely because of the cost of replacement part. 2.5k all in when finished.
I joined the 'diesel revolution' when I bought my 6 seater Honda FRV new, in 2007. It's been a great car and I have no desire to get rid of it just yet. But when I do, I think something like a 1.4 petrol engined Civic might well be on the list.

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:37 pm

Daveg2812 wrote:My you younger brother has just had clutch, DM flywheel and gearbox let go on his 07 plate 1.9 tdci Zafira. Even with a recon box, he ain't gonna get much change out of 2k. That's on top of the problems he had with the EGR vavle and associated gubbins which cost around £800 earlier in the year.

It makes you want to weep.

Been doing some reading up on DMF's where it seems if one is letting go, and it's not caught early (and they can also go without warning it would appear) they can lunch the gearbox, or certainly the housing. Scary stuff.

There are solid mass flywheels available, and there are firms which will do a conversion, but reports are coming back of varying degrees of success. The DMF is there to damp vibrations caused by a diesel engine apparently. What gets me though is that our old 51 reg'd Citroen C5 estate (2.0 HDi 110/8v) didn't have a DMF, was very smooth, had no issues with turbos, injector leaks, no DPF woes (it didn't have one) and now in the hands of a friend who we sold it to has over 130k on the clock and still runs like a Swiss watch. Great car that was. We sold it to buy a BMW 120d Sport which gave us a whole host of problems.

Petrol is certainly the way forward imho (providing it's not one of these turbo-supercharged VW thingies). I think it's quite telling that Honda have no diesel in the line up for the new Civic. Maybe they're realising that in order to meet the very latest emissions regs the engines just can't be made reliable enough.

Daveg2812 · Post by **Daveg2812** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:25 pm

Hadn't realised there was no new diesel Civic available, but I imagine its only a matter of time before one does appear. I'm a big fan of the diesel engine in my Honda, but I dread to think what it might cost to put right if something major went wrong, and saying that, because of the type of use it gets, short jouneys, stop/start stuff, it only averages about 37mpg accoring to the fuel comp. I'm sure there are a few small petrol engined family cars about that could get pretty close to that these days. The latest shape Jazz is quite a roomy car and is still, I believe, built in Japan. It will be reliable and hold its value. Yes, it may be a bit 'Beige', but I'm nearly 52 ferchristsakes. And anyway, I ride a motorbike.

ned1 · Post by **ned1** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:58 pm

Dave............
The wife's Honda Jazz was made in Swindon uk

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:18 pm

Daveg2812 wrote:Yes, it may be a bit 'Beige', but I'm nearly 52 ferchristsakes. And anyway, I ride a motorbike.

Agreed - and owning a motorcycle cancels out the perceived 'uncoolness' of any car that person may own. I doubt Messrs May and Hammond would disgaree.

Anyway, 'beige' aka Jewish Racing Gold.

cornishflat · Post by **cornishflat** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:46 pm

Been following this thread and the findings of the modern diesel backs up what a local mechanic told me. We were toying with updating our 1.6 02 Focus, which we have owned for all but the first 8 months of its life. I asked said mechanic what he thought of the modern diesel and he advised that they are ok until things go wrong such as the clutch with a dual mass flywheel. At £1000 or more certainly gets your attention, when the Focus had a clutch at less than £300 recently, and the list went on with sensors for this that and the other causing all sorts of headaches.
His advise was to keep the Focus (88000 miles) or if i change a small petrol, with Ford and the Jap stuff top of his list.
All in all pretty much the same as the findings in this thread so i surmise there must be some logic to it.
I have to say if i was buying a diesel, i would, as has been said go for an older bigger lump, nice and torquey and runs with simple maintenance for ever.

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:04 pm

cornishflat wrote: I have to say if i was buying a diesel, i would, as has been said go for an older bigger lump, nice and torquey and runs with simple maintenance for ever.

Ditto that.

The friend of ours (the ex-Mercedes Benz mechanic, now retired) who I mentioned earlier in this thread states the same thing. He also he wouldn't touch a M-B built after 1996 which was when Chrysler took the firm over. The M-B philosophy up to that point was to over-engineer the car to the point that it was nigh on indestructable, then work out how much it should sell for to make the required profit. Chrysler took over and that philosophy went out the window - sure the prices remained the same but the car underneath was a pale version of its former self. The following year M-B went to rock-bottom in the JDPower surveys in the US.

They're still doing pretty badly now in the UK's surveys by all accounts.

I'd love an old Merc - something like the one on Citizen Kahn ie a 280E or 300D. They'll run for 300k+ miles with just routine maintenance...

Laaaavely.

cornishflat · Post by **cornishflat** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:41 pm

Yep, and how many of those old Mercs have we seen in both films and documentaries in far flung places of the world.....run on cow dab forever.... well you know what i mean.