Ohlins adjuster bracket failure / UJ vibes

[bigblackfalco]

???? Is this that p*sstake site...you know the one with forged Knutson valves and drilled brake lines?
I thought it was?Probably wrong!
Bailey.

[adamski49]

I take it you don't subscribe to the phased UJ theory then?

I won't pretend to understand it but if all I have to do is shine a torch up the swingarm and get the UJ's to line up then there's really nothing to lose for a few minutes extra work.

Of course, once it's done, I will tell blatant lies that a phased UJ makes an S smoother than the silkiest of K's

Adam

[Boxadog 2000]

Well I am/was a disbeleiver as well but as my S has started to vibrate like the proverbial barsteward since I replaced the paralever bearings and have since been through every service item on the list to try and cure it I finally decided to my self that the diff was shagged.

So very slightly off track

I now work for a company who restore vintage Bugatti cars, and as it turns out the BEST sort of restorer is an old school motorcycle mechanic, NOT a motorcycle technician!
I work with 10 guys who all are motorcycle mechanics and explained the problem and the theory of phase on a UJ and without question or hesitation they all agreed that YES alignment of the UJ was paramount, to the point that I was given a practical demonstration on a drive shaft aligned or (phased) and then out of phase and I can confirm a resitance when out of phase.

So on Saturday I will remove the back UJ and inspect with luck I may not have shagged the UJ, I may even go to the extra hassle and remove the swing arm and check the UJ at the g/box.

[Boxadog 2000]

Spent the afternoon stripping the S and yes the UJ's were out of phase.

Due to this which I hope was the cause of the vibes it has shagged the new set of para lever bearings but the UJ is ok.

I also have a very small amount of play in the bearing for the input shaft of the final drive.

[Jason M]

Whilst searching for Loctite 2701 (270 is it's predecessor apparently) I came across this rear drive tech page - maybe there's something to this UJ phasing after all?

Anyway, can someone point me at a Loctite supplier, preferably online, but by phone if necessary.

Jason and Bob, I vaguely recall both of you found some - help please.

TIA

Adam

Adam - I've got some in the garage that I can post you if you need it then you can post it back. I got mine of ebay

Jason

[adamski49]

Spent the afternoon stripping the S and yes the UJ's were out of phase.

Due to this which I hope was the cause of the vibes it has shagged the new set of para lever bearings but the UJ is ok.

I also have a very small amount of play in the bearing for the input shaft of the final drive.

Interesting - I'm going to check to see if I have any play to indicate failed paralever bearings and if I have the dealer will be doing it all again plus phasing the UJ.

Odd that there's no mention of phasing in the manual though.

Adam

[adamski49]

Whilst searching for Loctite 2701 (270 is it's predecessor apparently) I came across this rear drive tech page - maybe there's something to this UJ phasing after all?

Anyway, can someone point me at a Loctite supplier, preferably online, but by phone if necessary.

Jason and Bob, I vaguely recall both of you found some - help please.

TIA

Adam

Adam - I've got some in the garage that I can post you if you need it then you can post it back. I got mine of ebay

Jason

Thanks Jason, but as per the above post, if there's any indication of failed paralever bearings I'll be going back to the dealer - I don't see why I should cough up for poor maintenance on their part.

Bit of a bugger as, apart from the Loctite and Staburags, I have all the required tools to do the job.

Also, no 2701 on ebay at present so I've emailed Loctite direct. Speaking to a helpful (rare breed) chap in Halfords today and apparently they have just stopped stocking most of the Loctite range. They have 271 and this appears to have the same strength but over a shorter life span

Adam

[Boxadog 2000]

No mention of phasing the UJ in the manual because it's assumend knowledge!..

Look at the parelever bearings and if there are any marks or colouring on the outer journal of the bearings they are quite probably US.

If a dealer has replaced your paralever bearings and you now have vibes I for one would be taking them to account.

Me I only have myself to blame, but now that I know that UJ's have to be in the same rotational plane I will not make the same mistake again.

Still at the end of the day it's all a learning curve (plus as I now have the Tiger it's not a major stress).

Other than money that I don't have to fix it.

[bigblackfalco]

Shared common knowledge?!
No! For something that could have such a great effect ie. to be significantly out of balance to give vibration and subsequent bearing/UJ failure.
HELLO...WAKEY WAKEY! "I followed the method described in your workshop manual( as used by your BMW technicians) and it all went wrong.My rear wheel locked up at 100 mph on the motorway;I'm gonna sue you".
What do you think?
Bailey.

[Jason M]

Shared common knowledge?!
No! For something that could have such a great effect ie. to be significantly out of balance to give vibration and subsequent bearing/UJ failure.
HELLO...WAKEY WAKEY! "I followed the method described in your workshop manual( as used by your BMW technicians) and it all went wrong.My rear wheel locked up at 100 mph on the motorway;I'm gonna sue you".
What do you think?
Bailey.

I have to agree with Mr B. If it were critial then it would be officially documented. I've had the back end off so many times now and guranteed it's never gone back on the same 'phase' as it's come off. I can only go on experience and other peoples may of course be different but the paralever bearings have only been changed twice in 123k that includes lots of riding on roads 'not for R1100S consumption', a lot worse than anything we have in the UK, lots of the time fully loaded and at high speed. The poor old girl has been used and abused constantly and has had the rear bearing go once and had one replacement UJ in all that time which I consider excellent. Baileys bike was similarly abused and if I remember correctly didn't get excessive rear end woes. I'm of the mind that if you believe something is wrong, you can convince yourself of anything when you're riding. My old bus seems to ride differently every day and I just regard it as usual nowadays. The thing I reckon is, just don't over analyse the things you think you're feeling and convince youself that something is wrong because it probably isn't. If something is really really wrong it will certainly identify itself unambiguously IMHO. Like I said, I can only go on experience, but if any of you would like to have a go on my bike, then you would probably see just how lovely and perfect yours is

Having said that, maybe there is something in it

Jason

[gus]

I,ve had my rear end out a few times too!The bikes rear end to clarify!
I,ve never phased the drive shaft and the bike hasnt vibrated any more or less than before.Its summer,they all act funny in the sun dont ya know!
gus

[adamski49]

Bob

Just to discredit your 'un-phased UJ buggering your paralever bearings' theory, I've just checked for signs of paralever bearing failure and there's no movement from the rear wheel whatsoever... six months and over 5k miles after the paralever bearings were replaced. This means it'll be difficult for me to go back to the dealer and accuse them of causing the problems. Shame.

As I've had bastard vibes for well over 3k, possibly 4k, and going back to the depths of winter the heat of summer can't be to blame.

I'm still going with Bailey's diagnosis of knackered UJ and if it adds 5 minutes extra to phase the UJ, then so be it. It may not make any difference but it definitely can't cause any problems.

I didn't mean to start a UJ war - just threw a few ideas in the air for feedback [rummages in garage for hard hat]

Adam

[winger]

Whats all this I business Mr Bramble!!!!!!!!!!!!,i reckon the last time 'WE' did it with caliper/wheel/rear diff off and all put back together must have been all of about 8 minutes!!! and i bet you lot thinking i'm sorry (were) jokeing!!!

Chris

[Boxadog 2000]

Well I am pretty certain that the final drive is now buggereddetectable play in the input shaft bearings and very un even back lash when turning the crown wheel.

Anybody here had there final drive re built/new bearings I am guessing £250/£300.

Regarding the phase thing as I don't know any better I have asked people who I have the highest regard for and who are not connected with each other and the all agree as adam said if it only taked 5 minutes then hey why not.

[winger]

Great these shaft drives eh!!!! must taken me all of an hour and half to put new chain and sprockets on my Tiger and everything is hunkydory,even my S is starting suffer from the wobbly wheel syndrome!!

Chris