www.boxertrix.com

Title says it all. The DVSA have announced a public consultation on proposed improvements for new rider training. You can have your say, but it is worth reading the proposal first in order to understand the survey questions. I ended up flipping back and forward between proposal and survey.

It's a bit 'insomnia cure', but I think it is important that motorcyclists have a say in this too. One of the first radio button options is what your interest in this is, e.g. Safety organisation, training, motorcyclist, member of the public etc. So a strong coffee and dig in.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvsa ... e-training

I leaned my answers towards better training and education of new riders and encouragement of further and advanced training, and definitely NOT more restriction and legislation. If they are asking our opinion, let's give it (thoughtfully and balanced I mean)

BMbler wrote:Not going to publish my answers, they wont, laid all answers straight as I see-

absolute academic, irrelevant blurb, that does nothing good to the riders or their abilities to ride safely.

So we ignore the opportunity or give very negative feedback, then what? We end up with another unworkable and impractical scheme for learners, dreamed up by non-motorcycling officialdom, that turns even more people away from motorcycling. Or worse, just more and more restrictions until the future of motorcycling is choked off at source.

Maybe it isn't ideal, but the DVSA have asked for input from interested parties and I think to metaphorically spit in their face is not helpful. At least they're talking about improving training, and not mandatory leg shields or GPS-governed speed control (and other madness that has been proposed in the past).

Seems to me the best changes would be to train the car, van and truck drivers to be more aware of motorcyclists.
Keep the bike training as it is and put more emphasis on other drivers to see us and not pull out etc.

I`m with John, 100 %.

Al.

I agree to a certain extent, but I would far rather take responsibility for my own safety than leave in the hands of other drivers. But that takes training, understanding and experience.

Experience is gained over time, during which you are more vulnerable. But I strongly believe that the right training and education can get a rider to a point where that vulnerability is reduced and the experience can be gained less painfully.

Yes improve driving standards, but I'm never going to rely on that to keep me safe on my bike.

SP250 wrote:Seems to me the best changes would be to train the car, van and truck drivers to be more aware of motorcyclists.
Keep the bike training as it is and put more emphasis on other drivers to see us and not pull out etc.

The problem as I see it is most people who learn to ride a bike do so because they want to and therefore have an interest in improving their riding (I know some ride like tw@t$ as You tube has shown us), most car drivers learn out of necessity and once passed their test don't do any sort advanced training. Truck drivers take their test for an employment opportunity and again have a vested interest in improving their driving - it's a different ball game taking your test in an unloaded wagon to driving something that's 44 tonnes and unstable. I know when I passed my HGV test it was difficult to get a job with no experience - vicious circle. There's such a shortage of drivers now jobs are given out willy nilly to people just thru their test with no experience.

I was always fiercely protective of HGV drivers but sorry to say the standard has dropped to appalling levels. I passed my bike test first then car test then HGV - I learnt so much about observation riding a bike and then learnt so much more about observation after learning to drive a truck. Unfortunately I don't think I learned a great deal thru driving a car. I have no interest in driving a car - if I didn't ride a bike or drive a truck I think I would be in the SMIDSY category.

I don't know how it's possible to train people to be more observant or aware without using scare tactics in the classroom which I don't feel achieves anything and once out the classroom are forgotten. The only way to make people appreciate the problems motorcyclists have is to get everyone to learn to ride a motorcycle which won't happen -wouldn't be a bad thing tho - learn to ride a bike first and then progress to a car.

But, if this survey gives us a chance to air our views, we should take the opportunity to fill it in?

slparry wrote:

That's certainly how I started out in the sixties, Steve. Fortunately for me, my SMIDSY incident and my no-grip-on-ice lesson were relatively gentle experiences, and I was young enough to bounce rather than break.

Still believe a small bag of knowledge would've helped too.

I heard something about this on the radio the other day.
One of the idea's being proposed is that riders with L plates have to be accompanied by a full license holder on another bike, much like learner drivers have to be accompanied.

Everyone should have to pass the Police Advanced course that I did. Simples!

Pete

BMbler wrote: Erfing git!, erf off!

milleplod wrote:Everyone should have to pass the Police Advanced course that I did. Simples!

Pete

I passed an advanced test, based on the police system. It transformed my riding and my enjoyment of riding. Best thing I did, motorbike-wise. I even enjoyed the test, being followed round by a serving officer on a 500 ("my other bike's off the road, but don't worry, I can keep up", he said when we met). A really nice bloke - and not just because I passed.

My course was 3 full weeks in all weathers, 3 hours in the morning, 4 in the afternoon. 30/40/50 limits were rigidly adhered to, but once we saw that black diagonal, it was game on. There was no requirement to do a running commentary on the bike course, unlike on the advanced car course, but as we were all on set-to-set radios, our instructor encouraged us to do it....woe betide you if you missed something! By the end of each day, we were completely knackered. Lots of pressure, lots of fun, lots learned, and its stood me in good stead over the years.

My suggestion was a bit tongue in cheek really, but I bet the collision stats would be a bit different if advanced training was compulsory!

Pete

We have a couple of retired motorcycle traffic police in our group. Their riding skills are amazing (smooth and quick), but it's the level of observation that is on a different planet - sometimes makes me think I must have done the ride with my eyes closed.

It gives a target to constantly strive for. And I agree that new riders (and many who've been doing it for a while) should be encouraged to do advanced training.

I went for it (advanced training) after being caught and passed on one of my favourite roads, by a Harley Sportster being ridden brilliantly and very smoothly. At that point, I realised I had a lot to learn that just me riding wasn't going to fix.