www.boxertrix.com

Link:


http://www.dinamoto.it/dinamoto/8_on-li ... r_eng.html


The above, along with tony foales " to dive or...." article make more sense to me. You'll notice the arrows on the vector diagram point the other way to the car bible article. Ok, for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, so you could argue that the arrows could point either way. It's just that the car bible version could give the impression that the downward movement is somehow itself loading the tyre. My interpretation is that it isn't.

The cossalter article makes explicit reference to wheel travel path, which I very much subscribe to. With reference to what seems, in the past, to have been called the "natural anti dive" element, this gives me the impression that it simply boils down to this.....

If the wheel spindle path is "vertical" there is zero natural dive. If the wheel travel path is rear wards there will be some magnitude of natural dive, depending on the angle taken by the wheel spindle path. If the wheel travel path is forwards there will be a positive input, the value of which can be subtracted from the other "element" of dive caused by weight transfer. If the angle forwards is sufficient the bike will lift at the front and not dive.

Reardless of which suspension system is used.

Hope I've got that right. I also hope that if I haven't, some clever person will show where I'm going wrong.

Having taken ages to get used to the 1100S telelever front end after years of conventional usd and right way up forks, both on racing and road bikes, my 2 pence worth.
You can't feel what the front tyre is doing anywhere near as well on a telelever set up. Conventional forks let you keep putting on more brake and some lean angle till they warn you not to do any more of either. The BM set up has to be done on faith. All in the ABT connection (a*se - brain - throttle).

Probably the reason BMW put usd forks on the S1000 superbike as it was going to be used in superbike racing.

Having said that the BM front end is supremely stable in cornering and can out brake most things as I found out on trackdays and once at SPA when supersport 600's were practicing in our trackday slots.
For a road sports and tourers though you pays yer money and either works ok.

SP250 wrote:Having taken ages to get used to the 1100S telelever front end after years of conventional usd and right way up forks, both on racing and road bikes, my 2 pence worth.
You can't feel what the front tyre is doing anywhere near as well on a telelever set up. Conventional forks let you keep putting on more brake and some lean angle till they warn you not to do any more of either. The BM set up has to be done on faith. All in the ABT connection (a*se - brain - throttle).

Probably the reason BMW put usd forks on the S1000 superbike as it was going to be used in superbike racing.

Having said that the BM front end is supremely stable in cornering and can out brake most things as I found out on trackdays and once at SPA when supersport 600's were practicing in our trackday slots.
For a road sports and tourers though you pays yer money and either works ok.

Absolutely brilliant to have objective, informed input on the subject. What you have said makes good sense to me.

plus to have put telelever on a bike aimed and marketed at the ZXR/GSXR/CBR/YZF clique would have been commercial suicide as that market segment are the most conservative and narrow minded of all the bike segments.

slparry wrote:plus to have put telelever on a bike aimed and marketed at the ZXR/GSXR/CBR/YZF clique would have been commercial suicide as that market segment are the most conservative and narrow minded of all the bike segments.

Agreed.

There's Saxon/mottod single wishbone (what else can I call it?) as a method of moving and controlling the front wheel, then there's Telelever. Telelever is synonymous with anti dive, which is, as I remember, the main reason the Saxon/mottod design came about?

But does it have to be that way? I seem to recall reading that the designer of the moto2 prototype built pro dive into his design. Is it the anti dive attribute which leaves the bmw bikes lacking in front end feel?