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Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:38 pm
by slparry
Looks good Peter, the dry clutch (and the pita replcement) is the one thing that scares me with the boxers
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:15 pm
by herrman
slparry wrote:
Looks good Peter, the dry clutch (and the pita replcement) is the one thing that scares me with the boxers
Tell me about it
My first 1100s needed a new clutch @ 36000, Cost me about £850 back in 2002. Always knew I should not be taking it to the Dragstrip!!
Peter.
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:49 pm
by el-nicko
slparry wrote:
Looks good Peter, the dry clutch (and the pita replcement) is the one thing that scares me with the boxers
.
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:14 pm
by sandbar
peter f wrote:a first step towards a 100% made in China BMW
I understood that one of those 450 trail bike things was made in China - all of it!
sandbar
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:15 pm
by peter f
sandbar wrote:peter f wrote:a first step towards a 100% made in China BMW
I understood that one of those 450 trail bike things was made in China - all of it!
sandbar
Indeed (add the single cyl F bikes and that ugly scooter).
But I had in mind real/true Beemers (the ones with the weird engine, odd aesthetics, famous reliability (kinda) and the totally wrong suspension - for sport usage).
He He
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:04 pm
by slparry
as I understood it the original single F bikes were built in Aprilias factory, production was moved to Berlin for the F650GS models, and moved to china for the G650 models?
I know my F650 Funduro has aprilia stamped on various parts
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:40 pm
by sandbar
peter f wrote:and the totally wrong suspension - for sport usage.
Really?? Are you sure about that? I suggest that you have a look at the video clips of the HP2 Sport Endurance races - Le Mans in particular.
There is that wonderful clip showing Markus Barth (I think it was) shaking his fist at the R1 that was continually blocking him in the corners.
sandbar
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:38 am
by bricking it
sandbar wrote:peter f wrote:and the totally wrong suspension - for sport usage.
Really?? Are you sure about that? I suggest that you have a look at the video clips of the HP2 Sport Endurance races - Le Mans in particular.
There is that wonderful clip showing Markus Barth (I think it was) shaking his fist at the R1 that was continually blocking him in the corners.
sandbar
I would love to see that video, any chance of a link ?
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:55 am
by sandbar
bricking it wrote:I would love to see that video, any chance of a link ?
I am sorry - I misremembered (as Hilary Clinton might say!!). It was not so much shaking his fist as gesticulating with his head! About 1:20 into this clip!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMDAsSsaXZE
Oh Yes! That suspension is absolutely no good at all for sport usage
sandbar
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:13 pm
by bricking it
Great stuff, very impressive. While there is loads of unsprung mass on the bimmer, that doesnt affect the suspension much on the smooth track, but surely gives the benefit under heavy braking right to the apexes !
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:50 pm
by peter f
well...
1. TeleSomething: doesn't alter camper/trail/etc under braking. This means "stability" but at a high price (a certain anesthesia to be exact). What means steering anesthesia? Just drive a Lotus Elan (or ride a 1198s: best front end known to mankind). OK if Lotus is unavailable try a Mazda Miata MX5.
2. ParaSomething: some positive arguments should exist but I can't recall anything right now, he he. But wait: Immortal Moto Guzzi LeMans used a similar thing. Bad news: that was 30 years ago.
In any case if these things could gain another 0.00001 msec in tracks/races...well any Super Bike replica and/or WSB and/or MotoGP missile could have a similar system.
Bimota Tesi/Vyrus anyone?
http://www.vyrus.it/
He He
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:41 pm
by sandbar
Peter - what can I say!! Give us a break!! You seem to me to obsess about unbelievably obscure minutia that appear to have no relevance to the real world. Note - I said the real world!
You commented that the front suspension on the Boxers was no good for 'sport usage'. I provided a link that showed the exact opposite, but still you would not have any of it.
I will try again. Read the bottom portion of this page. Just in case you do not know, Richard Cooper has raced Boxer BMWs for BMW UK and BMW Germany for ten years or so. He has also raced a lot of other bikes over that period. I would suggest that he knows what he is talking about.
You may well be right about the electronic gizmos that you keep on about, but IMHO you are wrong about the suspension. And I would add that the suspension on those works HP2 Sport bikes was a lot closer to the standard bike than on most of the IL4 Superbikes that they were competing with.
To everybody else, I am sorry about including a page from 'that' article, but I do not know how to split a jpg file.
sandbar
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:13 pm
by bricking it
I never lost the front on the bmw at any point in a bend, but I have on other bikes, its a numb sensation , but its very safe. (for a bike)
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:48 pm
by gus
Hi all
I would think tyres would play a very large part in the amount of feel you get from a front end rather than the suspension type. IMHO.
Gus
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:21 am
by peter f
gus wrote:Hi all
I would think tyres would play a very large part in the amount of feel you get from a front end rather than the suspension type. IMHO.
Gus
Well...
modern tires are all "good" (the likes of Metz M5 etc etc).
Other than that, to make a long story short, personally I would exchange feeling for "efficiency" any time (sport usage obviously). This is NOT to say that some/many people like (or rave) the BMW R suspension solutions. But on the other hand there's people who accept servo brakes in motorcycles (in the name of "efficiency").
BTW: Component quality (shocks, tires) has nothing to do with steering/braking feeling. For instance I use these shocks:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/5148954-post29.html
with these settings:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/5125124-post84.html
For the anesthesia bit: add the effect of the whole kinematic mechanism to the
rubber mount assembly (spot the "bolt" in the WP 4014 spin, instead of a classic linkage)