Ally Pally R1200S first impressions

[theseadog]

You see, you just don't get such a high standard of pi$$ taking on other brands !

Toodle Pip

[revolver550]

To keep BMW brand values sky high they have to make things expensive. Once you simply compare technology or performance they are dead in the water.

So the image of exclusivity aided by looney projects like the HP2 separate them from the herd. The styling of the latest crop of bikes has been as challenging as their car output. Those Chris Bangle designs are as ugly today as they were when first unveilled. So much for blazing a trail. (5 series/R1200ST)

Perhaps they should just shoe horn the biggest lump into their bikes, wring out as much horsepower as they can then make a trail version, a super motard, sport bike and a hyperbike. The picture link here shows the perfect target audience.


http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/revolv ... .dir=/58fc

[jivebiker]

Well I'm right p****d off.

I had planned to go to Ally Pally this year, having missed the last 2.

But Siemens told me I had to have my gas meter changed, so I had to be home all day for their bloke.

It was my only day I could have gone this year, but I figured the Gas meter was more important.

What really p****s me off is that the Siemens bloke didnt show up, and when I called them at 6pm to find out why, they said there was a problem and that they had cancelled my appointment on their system last week!

You dont want to know what I called them for not notifying me.

Roll on next year then!

Oh, and I told Siemens where to shove their replacement gas meter!

[theseadog]

Nope sorry, absolute nonsense, the lastest cars are IMHO superb looking pieces of kit, what would you rather have, another eurobox/japcrotch rocket. As for technology, the bikes are pretty advanced in many respects ignoring the minor detail of the er, ahem, um, cough, engine, however that's what gives them what so many other bikes lack, character.

Performance is by no means top drawer, but the technology aspects of the bikes lets you exploit what is available to the full. I'm sure everyone here has a tale of embaressing a power ranger at some point, on their far higher performance machine. As for the cars, they're just excellent pieces of engineering full stop. They may not be to everyone's taste asthetically, but I'd sooner have individuality, that is after all what made me buy my S in the first place.

Toodle Pip

[Gromit]

Nope sorry, absolute nonsense, the lastest cars are IMHO superb looking pieces of kit, what would you rather have, another eurobox/japcrotch rocket. As for technology, the bikes are pretty advanced in many respects ignoring the minor detail of the er, ahem, um, cough, engine, however that's what gives them what so many other bikes lack, character.

Performance is by no means top drawer, but the technology aspects of the bikes lets you exploit what is available to the full. I'm sure everyone here has a tale of embaressing a power ranger at some point, on their far higher performance machine. As for the cars, they're just excellent pieces of engineering full stop. They may not be to everyone's taste asthetically, but I'd sooner have individuality, that is after all what made me buy my S in the first place.

Toodle Pip

The embarrassing of a power ranger's not really down to the machinery - it's whoever's sat on the seat of the bike (I've embarrassed 1 or 2 on my Harley for f*ck's sake - and I'm not especially handy). Get someone on a Gixxer 750 etc who really knows what they're doing and the BM won't even see which way they go.

As to the new BM cars and their looks etc, it's hardly radical. Anyway, looks are always subjective and personally I reckon they're pretty (sic) dull. And as to their engineering, there's nothing that's ground-breaking - and build-quality wilse they're as poor as the bikes, as a relation of mine's been finding out with his 330i. It's a bitter pill at times, but the Japs simply build a better screwed-together product.

All imho of course

[Jason M]

Nope sorry, absolute nonsense, the lastest cars are IMHO superb looking pieces of kit

I'd sooner have individuality, that is after all what made me buy my S in the first place.

Toodle Pip

Superb looking.... IMHO they look absolutely disgusting - like their designers have gone up a comedy design cul-de-sac. They're just an absolute abortion. Park one next to an Audi and it looks like the kids have been let loose with an etch-a-sketch on the BM I work over the road from BMW UKs leasing HQ and there are a couple of hundred new nastymobiles straight out the window. As for individuality - how can you have individuality when it seems like every other 10th flippin car on the road is a new BMW chav/rep/social climber wagon too? They're hardly exclusive are they?

As for the bikes, well yep, they're probably expensive, and they're probably more basic, but then they're also probably more likely to be going in 10 years time when your oriental rocket is feeling like it's made of cardboard and string, and they're probably less likely to loose as much money over a long period of time, and they're probably going to cope with just about anything you can throw at them and not complain. Depends on your view I guess. In my view BMW bikes are made to be ridden in the real world in all conditions and weather for a long number of years whilst still maintaining a semblance of their original performance/handling. That's my experience anyway and my old S is now over 130K.

I find it weird that every young/self concious/wanabe aspires to a BMW car (bit of a sweeping statement eh! I've just got a 'thing' about BMW cars and their 'average' drivers - I'm sure they're not all like that, well... almost sure ) but they don't aspire to a BMW bike.

Anyway, so that's 1/2 the board alienated Still, I never like the feeling of a fence.

Jason

[adamski49]

Superb looking.... IMHO they look absolutely disgusting - like their designers have gone up a comedy design cul-de-sac...

I find it weird that every young/self concious/wanabe aspires to a BMW car (bit of a sweeping statement eh! I've just got a 'thing' about BMW cars and their 'average' drivers - I'm sure they're not all like that, well... almost sure ) but they don't aspire to a BMW bike.

Anyway, so that's 1/2 the board alienated Still, I never like the feeling of a fence.

Jason

I tend to agree about the design of BM cars. Everytime they bring out a new shape I think it's disguting but by about halfway through it's model life I tend to start liking them, not sure why.

As for aspiring to having a BM, they are a great car to drive and when you're offered one as a company car you're unlikely to say no... guess who had two in the early 90's and probably fit into your 'average' driver pigeon hole quite nicely ... didn't have to aspire to a BM bike though as I already had one.

Can't see me rushing out to buy a 1200 S though... that is unless I get tired of lubing and adjusting the chain

Adam

[theseadog]

Ah if only I'd copyrighted IMHO . . .

It's amazing the range of experiences that you can encounter with the same product.

Okay from the top . . . .

Richard I think we'd all agree that the rider is the deciding factor I was taking an average rider as the baseline, and believe me I'm VERY average


As for looks, like I said IMHO ! if we all liked the same style it'd be a very boring place, I think the exterior of the current 5 is superb but that's just me, not so keen on the interior mind you. I'd have to disagree about the engineering, my current 530D (the previous shape) is a cracking piece of kit, innovative, well put together and certainly no-where near the build quality ( or lack thereof ) of my donkey bike, which is frankly appalling. It's got 186K on it, and needs nothing other than a wash to look brand new again, never broken down on me, drives well, rides well, lots of useful little touches,excellent build quality (again IMHO) looks good for an estate ( you'll notice I don't call it a Touring ! ) doesn't need attention between services, that's what I call well engineered. I personally ( giving imho a rest for a minute ) think the engineering is pretty innovative.

I've never been a fan of the 3 series ( they are the young/self concious/wanabe aspirational motor Jason ) though they are great to drive, and the newer shape is kinda growing on me. However it was the bike that I bought for individuality Jason, not the car. I bought the car for quality, reliability and to keep my wife and kids safe, as well as being fun to drive, not to be exclusive, though as I've moved from Blackfield up to London, up to Bicester, up to The Lakes and then back to Scotland, they've become less common that aside I'm happy with my 48mpg 218bhp and god knows how much torque from my diesel. Don't even start me on the 1 series 18 large for that, I should bloody coco ! ( 32 if you want the 130 with some toys, get a bloody grip )

I agree with almost everything that you say about the bike, though I don't think they're more basic on terms of suspension, any of my friends who ride it are always surprised at the suspension.

The bikes, well I think most of us aren't blinkered to the appalling build quality of certainly the S, can't speak for the other models as this is my first propellor bike after years of Jap 4's, which apart from my last Fazer which furred up before my very eyes despite regular cleaning, were generally well built, especially the Hondas, when I sold my last VFR, which was a 97 750, ( chosen over the 800, but that's another debate for another place ) the delivery guy who collected it who wasn't a biker, couldn't believe it was that old.

I've had many car brands over the years but I keep coming back to BM and Renault ( now there's variable build quality for you ) I find Renaults, comfy usually pretty sylish, with some notable exceptions ! and generally nice cars. Current one's a Grand Espace, fits everybody and everything in that we need. I tried the Audi's and whilst they look good to me and appear very well built, I just found the ride was not good enough, I found it harsh, but mabey that's changed. i must admit I do fancy an S6 or mabey the quattro A8. I really enjoyed my last Modeo, it never broke down on me, apart from when the dealers didn't bolt it back together again properly, which happened with alraming regularity, and they were the reason that I haven't bought another. Vauxhall, why oh why did they stop making the Omega, cracking car, bags of room, comfy, quiet, blah blah blah. My last 7 had 195K on it when it went, the wife's last 5 was 228K, and none of them ever broke down. I've got a couple of friends ( no really I have ! ) who've both got 5's one's never had a days trouble 230K, the other 228K is never out the garage, but he drives like a diddy it has to be said.

I'm sure there are many with different experiences and opinions, nobody's is right or wrong, they're just theirs. These are mine and that is why I buy them, and like the looks


Right, can I take my nomex suit off now please, or is there more to come ?

Whew, I'm off for a cup of tea now.

Toodle Pip

[Gromit]

Right, can I take my nomex suit off now please, or is there more to come ?
Toodle Pip

B*gger...me flamethrower's run out of petrol...come on, start you b*stard

Sure, each and everyone's experiences will differ, quite wildly in places and this does tend to put different slants on where we're coming from - one man's joy is another's misery. I'm only going from the experience of one person's ie my bro-in-law's 330 which, yes, it's a fab car to drive (goes like stink too) but he previously had a very nice VW Passat which he found to be much better screwed together. He's been somewhat disappointed by the BM-owning experience and is now looking to go elsewhere - a shame, as he worked hard to fulfil his ambition of being able to one day afford a new BMW. Don't get me started on the 1 series - Jeezus do you get a lot for your money with that..NOT (Mrs Gromit & I have been going round a few dealers recently, looking to change our car in the nearish future).

As to the new line of bikes, we're paying top dollar for what is supposed to be a premium product, yet we're not getting that club-class build quality and finish. We are in fact sat down in row 45, near the bogs, with the rest of 'em who paid a lot less for their tickets. But if it keeps the BM bike dealers stocked with (unecessary) 48" plasma tellies on their wall and fancy decor well we'll know our money's being put to good use.

Doesn't stop me wanting a 1200GS or RT though... <runs away and hides>

I'd also totally agree re the 750 over an 800 VFR. Another exmaple of the Japs breaking what didn't need fixing (the 750 I always found to be a wonderful motorcycle). Then they REALLY got to work with the sledgehammer with the Vtec thingy. I owned an 800 for 4 months/6000 miles and hated the friggin' thing - but if you slag them off on the VFR Club forum you're virtually ex-communicated.

[theseadog]

Right, can I take my nomex suit off now please, or is there more to come ?
Toodle Pip

B*gger...me flamethrower's run out of petrol...come on, start you b*stard

A) I knew one day I'd be grateful for high petrol prices !

Sure, each and everyone's experiences will differ, quite wildly in places and this does tend to put different slants on where we're coming from - one man's joy is another's misery. I'm only going from the experience of one person's ie my bro-in-law's 330 which, yes, it's a fab car to drive (goes like stink too) but he previously had a very nice VW Passat which he found to be much better screwed together. He's been somewhat disappointed by the BM-owning experience and is now looking to go elsewhere - a shame, as he worked hard to fulfil his ambition of being able to one day afford a new BMW. Don't get me started on the 1 series - Jeezus do you get a lot for your money with that..NOT (Mrs Gromit & I have been going round a few dealers recently, looking to change our car in the nearish future).

B) Now there's a perfect example, my brother loved the passat when the first of the new shapes came out back in 90 whenever, so he bought a 1.8T which was a cracking car, when it ran. The thing went through batteries like most cars use oil filters, spent more time in the dealers than with my brother, VW even sent engineers from germany to look at it. They never did find the fault so eventually bought it back. Straight away he bought another one, and it was for ever breaking down with various faults, so that went to. Now that's something I would never have expected from a VW. But WTF have they done to the look of the new one ??? ( imho of course )

As to the new line of bikes, we're paying top dollar for what is supposed to be a premium product, yet we're not getting that club-class build quality and finish. We are in fact sat down in row 45, near the bogs, with the rest of 'em who paid a lot less for their tickets. But if it keeps the BM bike dealers stocked with (unecessary) 48" plasma tellies on their wall and fancy decor well we'll know our money's being put to good use.

Doesn't stop me wanting a 1200GS or RT though... <runs away and hides>

Well save me a space, I'd like a GS as well, and I'm afraid to say I like the new ST too < beats self with birch sticks>

I'd also totally agree re the 750 over an 800 VFR. Another exmaple of the Japs breaking what didn't need fixing (the 750 I always found to be a wonderful motorcycle). Then they REALLY got to work with the sledgehammer with the Vtec thingy. I owned an 800 for 4 months/6000 miles and hated the friggin' thing - but if you slag them off on the VFR Club forum you're virtually ex-communicated.

Ah at least it's not just me ! though I've noticed quite a few of them have bought GS's now <chuckle> VTEC, I think it looks great, miles better than the 800, and I think it might even edge the last 750 for looks, but why of why the vtec, what a waste of time and energy. I can't imagine saying " XYZ about my bike is crap" on the viffer board and actually having people agree.

Anyway, got my mug of tea in hand now so I'm going to sit an sup, now I've got that hot nomex off.

Toodle Pip

[bikemad99]

I am a chauffeur so get to drive a few decent cars,and some not so good. I had a 530d estate for 90,000 miles, without too many problems. It was an SE Sport so drove really well. I drove a 745i for 80,000 miles and although it was a great drive and very comfortable for 600 mile days,it was terribly unreliable and was always telling me something or other was wrong necesitating another visit to the dealers. One time it took them 6 weeks to fix it. When it came time last year for a change, I had long term demos on BMW 5 series, E class Mercs, and A8 & A6 Audis. I chose a Audi A6 2.7d,in which I have done 40,000 miles in great comfort at approx. 48mpg and with only 1 service and 2 tyres. I have just adviced the CEO and he has had a Audi A6 3.0d Quattro, which is superb.There is nothing wrong with BMW or Merc, but they are nowhere near as good as they were, where Audi have improved.
I think the best executive car at the moment is the VW Phaeton W12 , but my company does not think I am worth that sort of money.

[theseadog]

Hi Reg,

I love your signature line it's the SE sport that I've got just now and I think it's a great drive too. That's a surprise about the 745, I had the previous model 740 and it was a peach, all day comfy, and surprisngly nimble for such a big boat, not to mention averaging 30mpg.

So is that the new A6 you've got now then, and is it a V6 tdi ?

I do like the look of the Phaeton, it's how the new Passat should have looked ( for me anyway ) but I still don't correlate the price with a VW ! how's that for brand imaging at work . . . .

Toodle Pip

[Jason M]

Flip you do some miles - I guess it must be all that travelling back and forth to civilisation eh

I reckon reliability is a gimme noadays amongst all manufacturers - and diesels were always more reliable and harder wearing than petrol anyway weren't they? My old Mk 1 Golf GTI did 295k before I sold her for goodness sake. We used to be part of General Motors and got new company cars every 4 months to get them into network Q ASAP - I must have had 15-20 Vauhalls from Corsas, Astras, Fronteras up to Vectra GSI V6's and they all were ultra reliable (well, over the 10k I had them for anyway.... appart from wrecking 6th gear on a 4x4 turbo on day 2). So I just reckon it comes doen to taste, style, comfort, and image. We get an allowance now so I drive an old £600 306 (but only when I absolutley HAVE to! ) and ride the 2 bikes 99% of the time.

Each to his own and all that

Jason

[Velociphile]

Just got back from Ally Pally.
Static display impressions of R1200s as follows:

1. Why choose the worst colour as a display bike? They displayed silver - yuck. Looks too tall. Black would balance it better. 'Finding Nemo' might disguise it and yellow/black would make it less top heavy yet still show the shape.
2. It's clearly (?) hopefully (?) a pre-production machine; tie-wraps everywhere, untidy exposed wiring on the engine and frame. Rubbish if it's production.
3. Exposed wiring inside the fairing, no fairing liners or covers; awful and cheap looking.
4. Seat is way too narrow at the front. My hip bones sit on the edge of the slits unless I sit back. Sitting on the bike for 15 mins is plain uncomfty unless you sit back a good 4 inches on the main saddle padding.
5. It DOES have span adjustable levers (twiddlers on the inside of the lever). Phew
6. The frame welds are atrocious.
7. Under seat heat shielding is crumpled, untidy, amateurish kit build.
8. V e r y soft to bounce up and down
9. Sachs shock does have a shaft guard.
10. Instrument pack really disappointing.. Cheap and nasty like a Braun alarm clock. Compare, well anything else.....
11. Considering it's one of the things you'll be looking at a lot, the top yoke really could have done with something more special than kit kat foil coat sand casting - or whatever. Compare 999, mmmmmmm
12. Foot pegs are nasty, obviously not designed by someone who spends a lot of time hanging off; there's no ball end and the rubber insert extends over the end of the metal peg end. It won't last two seconds on the track - it was already broken on the stand by being rubbed upwards.
13. There looks like space to move the gearbox linkage upside down for a proper 1 up 5 down gear pattern - HOORAY

Velociphile

[bikemad99]

Paul,
yes it is the new A6 2.7 V6tdi manual. I can get over 50mpg on a run if I stick to about 80mph. The 7 series I had was one of the first of the new model so I did all the fault finding BMW should have done. Most of the time it was faulty sensors giving false info. The problem was they also automatically reduce the power to prevent any damage,resulting in a maximum speed of anything from 20mph to 50mph. Great fun when you are just leaving Edinburgh for London. Bear in mind this car was over £60,000 to buy. The other thing I do not like with BMWs is the service indicator. 3 days after I got it back from a service ,it told me it wanted the oil changing.When I questioned the service managers parentage,he replied that they could not do anything until it told them too,so they had not changed the oil. When they said the new 5 series used the same system,I moved onto Audi,so far without any regrets.
Glad when the weather picks up and I can stop thinking about cars.