Something to think about

[milleplod]

Can you provide a link to that claim, or is it anecdotal?

It was from my Nephew, who is a manager there.
I have no reason to think he would lie.

If it was 'recycled', it would never have met the spec. If it was, however, 're-refined', it would have done. And if it met the spec.....well, does one oil meet the spec better than another that meets the same spec?

Pete

Actually, oil is often recycled and re refined, and still meets the spec.
There is nothing illegal or underhand about it, and in fact it is considered good for the environment.
The point is though, that you are buying second hand oil.
It may work, and if I was running an old banger, I'd buy it, but to use it in a high performance high(er) revving sports motorcycle engine, is daft.
Perhaps if you're the sort of person who moves a bike on every year or two, then it doesn't matter, but if you plan on keeping a bike or car long term, and would like to see it go around the clock at least once, then it makes sense to use the best oil you can.
Look at the stuff you buy.
£10 for 5 litres.
I see that is inclusive of post.
So let's say, for arguments sake it's a few quid to send.
Taking into account profit margin, of let's say, another few quid per unit, that means they're buying it in for about £4.00 per five litres.
I mean come on.
What do you think you're getting for that.
As the adage goes, if something's cheap, it's cheap for a reason.

Ah, anecdotal then!

If it meets BMW's spec for the bike, its fine.

Pete

[Al]

I have put many hundreds of gallons of "aviation oil" in aero engines over the last 35 years and do not think it can be recycled for piston engines, the stuff we put in our gas turbines is thinner than the 5/30 synthetic I put in my MR2, by all means show me the proof that it can, but I would think the recycling costs alone would not be low enough to sell it at £1.50 a litre.
Used aviation Hydraulic oil can be used to run a diesel engine if mixed with aviation fuel, but I wouldn`t do that either.

The following is taken from a Gas turbine oil supplier manual.

Do not use gas turbine oils in any internal combustion engine!
There is very little similarity between this gas turbine application and the lubrication requirements of a typical internal combustion engine. Jet turbine oils aren't exposed to the byproducts of combustion. They are primarily designed for excellent, extreme temp viscometric performance with thermal and oxidative stability. Gas turbines have no blow-by and virtually no highly loaded areas. Gas turbine oils are very thin, have no detergents or dispersants, and act more like a coolant than a lubricant.

Aero Piston engine oils also have different properties to car/bike engines and would not be suitable.

Even if it was recycled it would not be suitable as a base oil.
Al.

[f90x]

I wouldn't have thought anyone is lying here. Just misinformed in the first instance and that misinformation has been perpetuated. FWIW, the buzz on a number of motoring forums is that Asda oil comes from either Texaco or Comma. However; There appears to be no empirical evidence one way or the other. Ultimately what one chooses to put in ones engine is personal choice based on many factors but as long as the spec is correct then the theory is that it is safe to do so. Having said that, I can't imagine too many people using very cheap (albeit in spec) oil on new/newish machines or running it for long mileages. And as we all (should) know the more regular the changes the longer the life of the engine. In 'all' cases.

[Herb]

As always with Fontana's threads we quickly get distrated and descend into straw man attacks.

There is more than one issue in this thread. Fake oils. Clearly bad, but unlike a handbag, could damage your machine. I don't think anyone is arguing about that.

Cheap oils. The standards for engine oils are incredibly rigorous. Quite simply if an oil meets or exceeds the spec demanded by the manufacturer for your given duty cycle then it's good enough.

That's not to say there are not differences and given enough running hours or a tough enough duty cycle you could probably measure a difference in wear and performance for the most expensive oils, with various additives not contained in the cheaper oils.

For most of us, running on the road in a temperate climate, there is probably little difference.

That said, I ride few enough miles To only need change my oil annually. The cost difference of £30 is neither here nor there so I always use Castrol as recomended by BMW with a Mahle filter.

[boxerscott]

That aside and back to filters and BMW`s (or anyone else`s) new cars that come with three years free servicing and space ship mileage between oil changes. Does anyone think a pcp contract car gets even looked at let alone having it s oil dropped and filter changed in that period! They suck the oil out cos it`s easier than putting a car on a lift, so do you think BMW change the filters on every oil change... no they do not there is a skip with brand new filters in it behind every bmw car dealership.

This info was divulged to me by my BMW car dealership "mole".

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5L-Westway-BM ... SwzhVWr1Li

This linky may work, good wholesome inexpensive oil.

It must be genuine cos there are no spelling mistakes on the packaging

[fontana]

Cheap oils. The standards for engine oils are incredibly rigorous. Quite simply if an oil meets or exceeds the spec demanded by theabout £40. manufacturer for your given duty cycle then it's good enough.

I never said it didn't.
Thing is the same goes for lot's of things.
So do you own a Schuberth, Arai, Shoei, or any other high end helmet ?
My question would be why, when you can walk into Lidl these and buy a lid that meets all the necessary standards, for about £40.

[f90x]

Cheap oils. The standards for engine oils are incredibly rigorous. Quite simply if an oil meets or exceeds the spec demanded by theabout £40. manufacturer for your given duty cycle then it's good enough.

I never said it didn't. No, you didn't but you argued against using it because 'it's possibly 2nd hand' and 'it's cheap for a reason'
Thing is the same goes for lot's of things.
So do you own a Schuberth, Arai, Shoei, or any other high end helmet ?
My question would be why, when you can walk into Lidl these and buy a lid that meets all the necessary standards, for about £40. Again, personal preference and a higher disposable income/desire for extra perceived safety, but this 'totally new' argument of yours is the exact opposite of the one you've been pushing all of this thread.

You don't know whether you're coming or going do you mate.

Herb had it right. As always with Fontana's threads we quickly get distrated and descend into straw man attacks.

[fontana]

You don't know whether you're coming or going do you mate.

Herb had it right. As always with Fontana's threads we quickly get distrated and descend into straw man attacks.

And you didn't answer the question.
Well you did kind of.
You said "perceived" image of safety, implying that people who buy more expensive lids are misguided.
It is very much in the context of the discussion because we are talking about quality.
There is a comparison to be drawn.
Why would you buy an expensive helmet when just like oil, you can buy one for a fraction of the price in a supermarket that meets all the necessary testing criteria
Answers on a post card

[f90x]

You don't know whether you're coming or going do you mate.

Herb had it right. As always with Fontana's threads we quickly get distrated and descend into straw man attacks.

And you didn't answer the question.
It is very much in the context of the discussion because we are talking about quality.
Please answer my question
I look forward to that, if you can manage it without resorting to childish back peddling.
I knew this one would catch some out.]
So then cheap supermarket helmet, or quality branded one from a bike shop.
Come on
The supermarket one meets all the standards

But you are one of those people with whom it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion and this very thread is a perfect example of that. You start with an argument against a particular product with no facts to back it up other than a passing comment from your Nephew. You get pulled up on it and then ignore those facts and conveniently move onto a totally different (not to mention opposing) argument, all of a sudden bringing up helmets from Lidl in a discussion about oil. It's totally bizarre. And as for "childish back peddling" What? Where? And if you want to talk about childish; how about "I knew this one would catch some out" I mean really, you're carrying on like a self satisfied teenager. I don't mind strange but the way you carry on is just nonsense to me.

I'll do you a deal because I find you impossible and really can't get involved with you on here. No hard feelings and I'm happy to be involved within the same thread that you may be in but I shall not directly reply to any of your specific posts in future and I request you do me the same courtesy.

Thanks and enjoy the rest of your evening.
That's a nice bike you have BTW. Always liked them. Very clean.

[fontana]

But you are one of those people with whom it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion and this very thread is a perfect example of that. You start with an argument against a particular product with no facts to back it up other than a passing comment from your Nephew..

Fine
If he's lying, then perhaps you could tell me how Asda sell 5 litres of 10W/40 for £6 and make a profit.
My nephew was responsible for product purchase.
He should know, but then it's easier to just call someone a liar, than try and prove them wrong.

You get pulled up on it and then ignore those facts and conveniently move onto a totally different (not to mention opposing) argument, all of a sudden bringing up helmets from Lidl in a discussion about oil. It's totally bizarre. And as for "childish back peddling" What? Where? And if you want to talk about childish; how about "I knew this one would catch some out" I mean really, you're carrying on like a self satisfied teenager. I don't mind strange but the way you carry on is just nonsense to me..

It's a simple comparison which is valid.

I'll do you a deal because I find you impossible and really can't get involved with you on here. No hard feelings and I'm happy to be involved within the same thread that you may be in but I shall not directly reply to any of your specific posts in future and I request you do me the same courtesy

Am I misguided for not buying a £45 helmet from Lidle instead, because it

[f90x]

I've inserted the blue text from earlier because you've suggested that i implied either both you or your nephew were lying. You clearly haven't read the whole thread properly and I did not suggest anyone was a liar. If you are to accuse people of things, then you have to be very sure of your facts. Please do not put words into my mouth. that's it. Goodbye.

But you are one of those people with whom it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion and this very thread is a perfect example of that. You start with an argument against a particular product with no facts to back it up other than a passing comment from your Nephew..

Fine
If he's lying, then perhaps you could tell me how Asda sell 5 litres of 10W/40 for £6 and make a profit.
My nephew was responsible for product purchase.
He should know, but then it's easier to just call someone a liar, than try and prove them wrong.

I wouldn't have thought anyone is lying here. Just misinformed in the first instance and that misinformation has been perpetuated. FWIW, the buzz on a number of motoring forums is that Asda oil comes from either Texaco or Comma. However; There appears to be no empirical evidence one way or the other. Ultimately what one chooses to put in ones engine is personal choice based on many factors but as long as the spec is correct then the theory is that it is safe to do so. Having said that, I can't imagine too many people using very cheap (albeit in spec) oil on new/newish machines or running it for long mileages. And as we all (should) know the more regular the changes the longer the life of the engine. In 'all' cases.

[fontana]

I would put more trust in the knowledge of a person who is actually working for the company that sells the stuff.
That's a no brainer.
I say again, if it's cheap, it's cheap for a reason, just like the £40 lids from Lidl.
Would you trust one to protect you as well as a quality make.
I mean it's passed all the tests, so it must be just as good ?
Er no.
Just like your cheapo oil
Oil is the most vital component of your engine.
It's life blood.
It pays to use the best you can afford.
After all, we're only talking about the cost of a couple of tanks of fuel ffs

[dave the german]

OK so your nephew is responsible for purchasing but what does he know about oil?
Can anyone remember the "yellow label" brands? Fine Fare i think was the supermarket yonks ago. I delivered yellow label goods direct from the branded goods factory - at the time, the savings were quoted as 1/2p saving on each can by not using the branded label - a substantial saving when you were purchasing millions on cans
Surely the power of buying must play a part?

[Blackal]

Gents - welcome to the world of "Bikesnbones".............



Al

[Herb]

This thread is hilarious.

Instead of asking why a cheap oil is cheap, ask why an expensive oil is expensive. How much of it is for marketing? How much more is increased margin compared to the comparatively slim margins the supermarkets are making?

I reiterate. If it meets the spec it's perfectly fine. From there on in it comes down to personal choice, personal budgets and whether you think the enhanced features of an expensive oil are worth paying for. Outside of a laboratory you'd be hard pressed to find a difference.

My choice is to stick with Castrol. Maybe I am a sucker for the marketing?