www.boxertrix.com

I also thought the program hurried through the TSR2 story (which is worth a program all to its self).
Self destruction of the British aircraft industry by committee.
I followed the project as a youngster and it was at the tender age of 7 that I realised that most, if not all politicians are f**kwits and have a very tenuous grip on reality.

The TSR2 would have been a world beater and in the long run would have saved billions.

Just my opinion of course


Mick

Merecat wrote:I also thought the program hurried through the TSR2 story (which is worth a program all to its self).
Self destruction of the British aircraft industry by committee.
I followed the project as a youngster and it was at the tender age of 7 that I realised that most, if not all politicians are f**kwits and have a very tenuous grip on reality.

The TSR2 would have been a world beater and in the long run would have saved billions.

Just my opinion of course




Mick

I f you ever visit Cosford there's a good chance you'll see me standin' there just gawping at it.

I use to work at Binbrook in LSF (lightning Storage Flight). When the pilots took them out for test flight after sevicing they use to throw them around the airfield. I did have the chance to go up in one but chickened out. I now regret that. They were my favourite aircraft in the RAF.

madthemad wrote: I did have the chance to go up in one but chickened out. .

That's a pretty good reason for continiously punching yorself in the face mate.

madthemad wrote: I did have the chance to go up in one but chickened out.

I would have sold a kidney for a ride in a trainer. The closest I got to it was a sit in the seat and a photo taken in front of a Mk6 from 11 squadron, Binbrook 73

Mick

Merecat wrote:I also thought the program hurried through the TSR2 story (which is worth a program all to its self).
Self destruction of the British aircraft industry by committee.
The TSR2 would have been a world beater and in the long run would have saved billions.

It would only be worth its own programme if they told the truth.

My understanding was that the Americans were scared sh*tless of the TSR2, because they they had absolutely nothing anywhere near as good as the TSR2, either that existed or was even in the design stage.

The Harold Wilson government, that included Dennis Healey and Wedgewood Benn (although I think that he might have still had his hereditary Lordship at the time) needed American help for their latest IMF bail-out. The US aircraft industry was probably more important to them then than it is today, lobbied hard and the 'quid pro quo' for the help with the IMF was for the UK to completely abandon the TSR2, the Vickers 1000 troop carrier (that design later re-appeared as the VC10) and a two seat jet trainer (that later re-appeared as the Jet Provost). The future aircraft requirements would be met by buying F104 Starfighters (ask the Germans about those killers!) and the Phantom - neither anywhere near as good as the TSR2 although whether or not it would have saved any money is probably worth a programme of its own!!

That led to the unedifying site of Wedgewood Benn with a sledgehammer 'smashing up' the TSR2 jigs. That photo opportunity was to 'prove' that there was no intention of going back on their word with regard to the TSR2.

Mind you it was explained to me later that "a jig is a jig is a jig" and Benn would not have been able to tell the difference between a jig for a Wellington and a jig for a TSR2. Originally that was supposed to be it!! All gone- finished!!!! However I think that secretly (at the time) at least two survived.

sandbar

I am glad some of you got as much enjoyment out of the program as I did, regardless of any factual shortcomings, all in all a good program I think. I will be watching the follow up on commercial airliners later this week.

I could never have been a jet pilot due to an eye condition I was born with, not withstanding any lack of talent etc that may also have prevented me. Being of Navy stock I always fancied myself as a Harrier pilot and have always been slightly envious of my friend who made that his career.

"Empire of the Clouds" by James Hamilton-Paterson covers the lot if you're interested. A good read, but utterly depressing to see how we threw away the industry.

'Same old same old' springs to mind. Killing the TSR2 was deffo defference to the yanks and was proven to me by talking to the people 'on the ground' when I was with the MOD. It was so far in advance of the US planes at the time, and anyone else, that much of the avionics developed found itself in the first wave of the Tornado (MRCA at the time) project.
This is the same as we have now - scrapping the harrier and buying the US junk then buying the wrong one; after realisation of no arrester hook changing the order. MOD procrurement always been run by whitehall idiots and usually make the wrong choice.
The Concorde demise is much of the same thinking - the US never caught up or caught on. They could build a Harrier under licence and help develop the super harrier but the current atate of their f32+ project shows what clowns they are. How did they get to the moon?!!
I still stand by a statement I made on another forum many years ago that without the nazi scientists they secreted away after the war they would have as much political clout today as Mexico.

John Coles wrote:I still stand by a statement I made on another forum many years ago that without the nazi scientists they secreted away after the war they would have as much political clout today as Mexico.

Spot on, John!

The Chinese were cock-a-hoop a couple of years ago about a 'Chinese rocket' going into space. They weren't very happy when I pointed out it was done with cutting edge 1930s Nazi German technology. No sense of humour some people!

It shows just how talented and advanced the German (and the British) boffins were at the time.

As many have said, things like the political demise of TSR, Concorde, bike engineering, etc etc, is a tragedy really.

JamesL wrote:"Empire of the Clouds" by James Hamilton-Paterson covers the lot if you're interested. A good read, but utterly depressing to see how we threw away the industry.

Just ordered a copy. I'll let you know what I think once I have finished it.

exocities wrote

As many have said, things like the political demise of TSR, Concorde, bike engineering, etc etc, is a tragedy really.

too true to you I have a sales leaflet left by my father for an Aerial Square Four (he actually rode a Gold Flash, my uncle a Vincent) which is more a pamphlet really and I know ems and all other electronic goodies have recently moved the game on but the mechanical/metalurgical engineering for the time was well in advance of other manufacurers - and to think good old HD are still soldiering on with their lump

It is a shame that we won the war but then invested in Germany & Japan and allowed them to become as powerful as they are in many engineering arenas and all our governments since the war have seem engineers as just 'oily rags' and done thier best to kill them off.

I mean where in the world could a company as small as Marcos (love them or hate them) go out and end up designing and producing their own V8 when production of the unit they were using stopped and they could find nothing in the market place to suite?

Crying shame - and don't get me started on the EU

Wasn't the TSR2 scrapped due to the cancellation of Bluestreak and the decision to go with Polaris as the deterrent?

Time to raid the piggy banks guys

http://www.thundercity.com/pages/499409 ... pecial.asp

Long shot, but there was also a Folland Midge. It's a big step from 'midge' to 'meek' but it is all I can offer.

You can Google Folland Midge for more facts.

Of the great, very much lamented, Lightning.
I once heard an interview with Rollie Beaumont who described flying the aircraft from the South coast of Scotland to the North coast of Wales in some ridiculous time , like 5 minutes. Not sure about that time but at the time I was impressed.

What a loss. Heralded the assassination of a once great aero industry to please our good friends over the water........sort of like Concorde.