R1200ST or R1200S anyone tried both of these to compare?

[hjr1100s]

I know I shouldn't do this .... but ....

It's like a d...'s dilemma what bike to replace the R1100S with.
The R1200ST is practical with big bags,luggage rack,centerstand and bigger tank than the R1100S put it is pig-ugly and the handling not as good as the R1100S.The engine is more powerful though and feels maybe even better than the R1200S with some smooth pickup issues due to the "hotter" cams to make at little more power between 7 and 8500...

This part is true ....

The R1200S looks still o.k. and handles as good as the R1100S and has more power than the R1100S but is just as useful and practical as any sports bike from italy or orient...

[/quote]

This part is not quite true .... The 12S defenitely handles better then the R1100S if better means: less efford needed for steering while still rock-steady-stable.
If 'sports bike' means Ducati ST3, MotoGuzzi 1200 Sport, Suzuki SV1000, Honda VFR800, Yamaha FZ1000 a.s.o. then you're right...

Like I said a real dilemma and probably the reason why both 12ST and 12S don't come off the assembly line anymore...

There's a lot of discussion 'bout this one: fact is: you can still order one for new .... with a 2008 paint job... in NachtSchwartz:

PS:Having said that for commuting I definately would go for the ST since the 12S is definately less comfortable (low bars,less wind/weather protection)

true, but not much

,hard seat,

not true, in fact the ST's seat is too soft (bit like a couch, you loose any feel with the bike)

less luggage space,no centerstand to park the bike upright) or even better keep the R1100S...Save yer money!

true

Or look at the R1200R which is really nice in my opinion if you can live with less wind/weatherprotection...

like said.... had one for a loaner last week and though its a nice bike and looks are OK (but a bit boring), the moment I got back on the 12S I noticed how much better it felt to me: good contact with the bike, need and tight feeling on brakes and gearbox, forward focused..... When you want to push ..... this is the bike for me.

HJ

[Boxadog 2000]

IMHO I disagree.

Having ridden both the GS is a much more competent bike.

The 1200R is great bike but to cramped for me.

Bob

[Gromit]

IMHO I disagree.

Having ridden both the GS is a much more competent bike.

The 1200R is great bike but to cramped for me.

Bob

Strange that - I had bags of room on the 12R and I'm 6'3"

[Boxadog 2000]

Yeah but my legs are a bit older than your Grom and don't bend that well any more.

Bob

[Gromit]

Yeah but my legs are a bit older than your Grom and don't bend that well any more.

Bob

Sorry Dad - forgot about that.

[nab 301]

A little ot but sort of relevant.
I was tyre kicking in a dealer recently and as one of the great unwashed was pointed in the direction of an ST and a rockster .
Both had abs and presumably servo brakes. I know there's pages on th eweb and on this forum for/against servo brakes but...... would it influence any here re purchase. (failure ,expensive repairs etc etc)
I've ridden the very latest bikes sans servo and the brakes are just fine ,should I wait another year or so until these filter through so to speak(and will my 11s last that long?)

Nigel B

[BMW-Fahrer]

My dutch friend I agree with you that if you want to ride fast through long sweepers like on a trackday the R1200S will be the better tool than the R1200R.But the R1200R is faster and easier to ride on real roads;bumpy and twisty like in the alps...
I disagree that the R1200S handes any better than a R1100S with GS paraarm and Ohlins.It is faster in a straight line for sure but in turns the ol one feels just as good maybe even a little more stable since both are not exactly quick steering...
As for the GS it might be more versatile than the R and get you the "tough" image but the R is the better road bike.Lighter,more agile and more stable...
But anyways,nothing against the "swiss army knife" of motorcycles especially since it got the R1200R engine and the ESA option for 2008...
All we need now is a new sports-tourer from BMW;as capable and exciting as the R1100S was and still is after now 10 !!! years...
And no,the R1200ST and R1200S don't come down the assembly line anymore.The ST is definately done and the S might get another run if there are enough orders...
B.t.w. nothing wrong with the servo brakes.They can be serviced at home just as easy without any special tools.Did mine yesterday and everything works fine...Brought it to the dealership afterwards to hook it up to the "machine" and no fault codes...You don't even need a power-bleeder because it is build in into the system...I like em.
The servo brakes on the R1100S are definately stronger than the ones on the R1200S.And lack of brake feel is only journo-b.s. because who needs "brake feel" if they can't look up?!On trackdays you ca outbrake anything with these,now all we need is the power to do the same on acceleration...

[dave2wheels]

really appreciate the comments , I've done it now.... the test ride not the purchase!

yes the ST is quite softly sprung and firmer ride on the S much more involving

I'm in love the ST engine some much torque, pulls beautifully and the power so linear you cannot but love this engine more than the 1100 it's so nice

didn't like the power delivery on the S, disappears after pulling away then smooth to 5 thou goes flat then takes off at 6 thou!

on the S the scrteen is so low and I'm a shortarse-it's been a while since I was hit mid chest actually the whole of my upper body by the wind blast..going faster than I thought because the engine was smoother

S was suprising comfortable on that wafer of a seat it's really good, helped of course by the ohlins shock fitted

the looks of the ST are bit of a mongrel doggy need to know it's character to love it S looks great

head says ST heart says S (far more invigorating!). going to try the R next.

[Vince]

Oh another comment on the looks of the ST from me.

It's usually the older folk (me included in that age bracket) that dismiss the looks of the ST at first viewing, younger ppl seem to like it, I think it's what you get comfortable with.
We've seen many years of "normal" looking bikes, so something different "isn't right".
TBH I'll like having a bike that ppl will come over and start talking about, there was a few years while I owned the VFR (yes a red one) that I had to look twice before I got on it in the bike park for fear of swinging the leg over the wrong one there were so many about

One disadvantage is the relative lack of aftermarket goodies available. I'm assuming BMW will keep spares on the shelf, most of the stuff is RT anyway but plastics might be a problem in years to come possibly?

Whatever you buy, I suspect you'll enjoy it

[stoney]

From the horses mouth - this trixter has owned both:

Hi Guys

I've had the R12s for a while now and finally have panniers and a bagster tank bag fitted, just like all true sport sport sport bikes should have.

I technically still own a R11s (99), its on consignment for sale, but I did manage to take it for a spin a couple of months back.

The R12s is a sharper tool, it has more motor, better (sport) handling, better brakes (less weight?) and better overall feel and feedback over the R11s.

The riding position I find a little less comfortable than my R11s, but it was fitted with the high rise bars (about 20 - 30mm higher than stock). Having said that I have done a couple of 5 to 6 hour rides without any problems.

I made the mistake of buying an R12ST, a while ago as a reaction to the initial release of R12s without luggage. Big mistake, comfort doesn't equall rider satisfaction, it's the Fang factor that counts! Speed and cornering whilst carrying as much luggage as I need to.

Yep, the pillion seat and position looks awful, I'll never no for sure but the better half will jump on it for the occasional trip we do. Won't get the hair dryer in that little bag though! And if I have too, I'll buy a cheap, older more comfy beemer for trips with the missus. Is that called a win - win?

You know you want it!

cheers
Wayne

[hjr1100s]

My dutch friend I agree with you that if you want to ride fast through long sweepers like on a trackday the R1200S will be the better tool than the R1200R.But the R1200R is faster and easier to ride on real roads;bumpy and twisty like in the alps...

I can imagine it will...

I disagree that the R1200S handes any better than a R1100S with GS paraarm and Ohlins.It is faster in a straight line for sure but in turns the ol one feels just as good maybe even a little more stable since both are not exactly quick steering...

I can only compare with my former R1100S fitted with shorter GS strut and Wilbers suspension vs. my current R1200S with Ohlins. It's obvious to me that the R12S has a lighter handling and changes direction more easely while at speed. I did spend 70.000 miles on the 11S and 13.000 miles on the 12S, so you might assume I'd notice any difference ....

And no,the R1200ST and R1200S don't come down the assembly line anymore.The ST is definately done and the S might get another run if there are enough orders...

Like said, there's a lot of discussion about this one, no need to repeat it once more...

The servo brakes on the R1100S are definately stronger than the ones on the R1200S.And lack of brake feel is only journo-b.s. because who needs "brake feel" if they can't look up?!

Dunno, I guess it's something you can get used to. Had them on the loaner ST and found them a bit annoying (the noise). The pressure point is more like a hot spot which gives it a on-off like character. It does require veeeeery little force. While you very well could get used to the servo assisted brakes, I think, and I assume BMW does too, that it's too much technology for something that can do without while having just as much advantages as dis-advantages (some nearly accidents have happened due to failing servo controlled brakes).

HJ

[Boxadog 2000]

I see our friend from the USA has had another letter printed in this months Bike.

A well worded and concise piece I thought.

Still ought to go buy a new GS though

[Archie]

Ex founder member of the rare red GS club

Hello, what's going on then....?

[Boxadog 2000]

[herrman]

Ex founder member of the rare red GS club

Hello, what's going on then....?

I was thinking along the same lines!!! Cannot really see Bob on much else but a GS now so maybe its just changed colour???