NEC Bike Show 2007

[winger]

Well i don't know about BMW,but you wrong on the Ducati front!!!they've already exceeded the production quota and still takeing orders,the problem being there are far to many people swanning about with 40 grand to spend on a bike than Ducati bargain for.

[sandbar]

Really? That is only based on the assumption that the quota you are thinking about is the actual production figure, rather than a marketing wind up.

How do you make people want something? You make them think they can't have one because there are not enough of them. Ford used to be the best at that game.

Remember, they can't make any more bikes than they have parts for!

I did not say that you were wrong about the comparative figures. The point that I was making was that the comparison is already settled and was settled some time ago.

sandbar

[winger]

Your German yard stick doesn't work in Italy!!!,i could tell you a great story just to blow a hole in your theory,but the net makes this world we live in way to small!!!!.

[sandbar]

Your German yard stick doesn't work in Italy!!!

I repeat:

they can't make any more bikes than they have parts for!

sandbar

[AvTech37]

Bit late in the day I know but for what it's worth...........whilst the 900 Thruxton was very nice the star for me was definitely the HP2 Sport. Beautiful top yoke and footrests. Managed to sit on it whilst the BM man moved the silly placard thingy..........big problem now as it felt fantastic! OK, so it's a static assessment but the position felt very good and nowhere near as extreme as an R6, 1098 or 675 (for example).
As everyone has mentioned however...........£14.5k!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dog Tyred]

I repeat:

they can't make any more bikes than they have parts for!

sandbar

This sounds like a man who knows exactly how many parts have been ordered (or delivered) to the BMW factory!

but is it not possible to order more parts??

Nu2

[Boxadog 2000]

Err I think he is talking about Ducati

Bob

[winger]

E'r i think he's thinking BMW,the germans have never been lateral thinkers!!!,our man thinks you make the parts and then get the orders!!!,thats why BM are up their necks in stock and no punters,and Ducati are up to necks in orders and no bikes!!!

[sandbar]

but is it not possible to order more parts??

These threads seem to take a life of their own - disappearing rapidly off at a tangent.

Let's get back to where this started.

There was an implication that the Desmosedici RR would outsell the HP2 because of ongoing marketing decisions etc.

I didn't disagree that the Ducati would 'outsell' the HP2, but just made the point that the relative number of sales had nothing to do with what is happening at the moment, but is as a result of decisions made some time ago.

The whole idea that, in this day and age, Ohlins, Brembo, Marchesini, Gilles, Bridgestone et al have got loads of staff (and equipment) just sitting around waiting in the off chance of a further order is, frankly, laughable. Both these bikes have a majority of parts that are unique to that bike so it would not be a case of just taking another 50 or so off the shelf.

The vehicle manufacturer will have contracts with its parts suppliers for specific quantities of parts, but with the delivery times to happen at the convenience of the vehicle manufacturer in batches of a size that will also change at the whim of the manufacturer. The rate of delivery may change, but the total numbers are pretty much fixed.

Any change in the numbers requires an enormous amount of planning and lead time. In this day and age, the makers of even the smallest parts are large production facilities and have their production programme pretty well mapped out for some time ahead.

There are plenty of recent occasions where even the largest manufacturers have had to change their production plans to accommodate parts supply.

Anyway back to thread. You are probably right. The RR will probably outsell the HP2, but, again, that has nothing to do with what is happening now.

They can't build the bikes if they do not have the parts to do it. That applies just as much if they are Italian, German, Japanese, Chinese or whatever. The days of the parts being made by a couple of likely lads in a little shed somewhere have long gone.

" Oi, Luigi - That was Ducati on the phone. Thank God, they want another 50 of those special parts! We have nothing else to do - so lets get started"

Sorry fellas - the world has moved on - perhaps unfortunately!

sandbar

[AvTech37]

I suggested to Mr Ducati Man that they had underpriced the Desmosedici RR and should have charged £50k each. He agreed that based on the sales figures at £40k they could have charged more and sold the same amount.
I don't know how many HP2,s they are intending on making per year but for what it's worth Mr BM Man told me they were bringing 100 into the UK in 2008.
On another track, they really don't like criticism of the L for L and R for R indicator switches do they? I tend to wind them up on every possible opportunity and the response is always the same......."you get used to it". I shouldn't have to; it should be intuitive.
As if BMW will ever listen...........................

[winger]

Sandbar mate when was the last time you ever worked in a factory!!!,there isn't any stock nowhere days cuz no bugger knows what sells and what doesn't,there's an awfull modern day saying called 'Just in time',have a wander around Triumph on one of their visits the conrods turn up delivered from Japan the day before the production enough to do that run F*** all else,if there's another production run they ask for more and thats the suppliers problem.

The days of Oh yea were going to make million of e'm,Fred get on the phone and order loads,we'll worry about selling e'm after we've made e'm Yea Right!!!

You order a new mini(as in BMW) as soon as you put your money down,BM make the engine within 3 days, order a car they make an engine,there are zero engines in stock.

I've seen the same in the print game,7/8 years ago a customer would order a million DVD display cases,and we'd keep e'm in stock for free,in the end they would order them daily,we'd complain about how f*** do we know how much board to order in advance??,thats not our problem thats yours mate!!!,and if you can't do it we'll find someone who can.

As for the HP2 in the present form and price,it'll sink without trace.

[winger]

Re the NEC

Have a look at the Kevin Ash colum in todays comic,only topped by some of the readers letters just great!!!

[Blackal]

On another track, they really don't like criticism of the L for L and R for R indicator switches do they? I tend to wind them up on every possible opportunity and the response is always the same......."you get used to it". I shouldn't have to; it should be intuitive.
As if BMW will ever listen...........................

I used to curse them, but now - find them easier to use than the single lefthand control. The only modifications I would like are:

1) Press once to activate, press again to cancel (a la HardlyDangerous)

2) Swap the cancel button with the horn button - the LH button is easier to use.

Admittedly - I do more miles on BMWs than other bikes, but I would say............... you do get used to them

Al

[f90x]

I don't mind them at all and got used to them really quickly but I would have to agree with Blackal, one should be able to cancel them by pressing the same button and I have often wondered why BMW haven't already done this.

[sandbar]

You order a new mini(as in BMW) as soon as you put your money down,BM make the engine within 3 days, order a car they make an engine,there are zero engines in stock.

...........order a million DVD display cases,and we'd keep e'm in stock for free,in the end they would order them daily,we'd complain about how f*** do we know how much board to order in advance??,thats not our problem thats yours mate!!!,and if you can't do it we'll find someone who can.

As for the HP2 in the present form and price,it'll sink without trace.

I did say that these threads can wander off at a tangent.

With the greatest respect you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how "just in time" works. I do know a bit about it and if you want to discuss it in another thread then I am certainly up for it.

However I am sure that most Trixters are already screaming NO,NO,NO - Please NO!

Either way, it does not alter the FACT that the comparative sales will depend on decisions that were made some time ago!!

DVD display cases??? The problem with both the bikes we are considering is that they both have unique parts. If, for example, Ducati are unhappy about the supply of the very special Ohlins for the RR, then they can just go elsewhere and buy them from.............er Ohlins. The same applies with Brembo, Marchesini and Bridgestone etc etc - not to mention the makers of the carbon fibre bodywork with the ceramic exhaust outlets. That makes the situation very different to DVD cases. The deal for all these was negotiated and tied up in a contract that was finalised some time ago. It has to be - it cannot work any other way. To misquote James May " and that is a bike fact".

HP2 - sink without trace? You cannot possibly have enough information to make that statement. It may be what you think, but unless you know how many they intend to have made, then how can you come to a valued judgement? Remember, the only people who KNOW that information do not work in the UK. The UK people only know what Munich want them to know. By the way, the same applies to the Ducati RR.

These things were all decided a while ago.

sandbar