3 Penalty Points ?

[BockingBandit]

I've just been pulled by the police for £60 and 3 penalty points (Fixed Penalty Notice ( Endorsable Offence)) for having my front wheel over the first white stop line into a 'Green Cycle Box' at the traffic lights on Poultry/Cheapside in London EC3. I wasn't fully in the 'Box' and was positioned well before the second stop line where the traffic Lights are actually situated. Honestly.. I didn't know that this was an endorable/fineable offence,.. it's just something I've always done on saftey grounds really.. a lot safer than hanging between the Boy-Racers' in there 'Supa-Corsas'. However, ... the copper didnt read me the 'You have the right to remain silent.. ' statement.
Question 1: Does anybody know for a 'fact' if I should have been read the 'Warning Statement'?
Question 2: Can I use the MCN Letter in the same way that you can for 'Speed Camera' offences?

many thanks,.. and be warned,.. this is such an easy hit for the law. While I was getting my 'producer' etc, .. they clocked about 19 bikes in the same box,.. I pointed out a 'Bendy-Bus' that also entered the 'CycleBox',.. but the other coper siad that with buses,.. they would just 'note the index number and inform the bus company'. So,... it's just Motorbikes that they're after at the moment,.... woopeee.

Geoff (sorry for the added rant there)

[Gromit]

Geoff - we have a couple of Boys in Blue on the site who will hopefully wade in here to help with the NIP thing.

Must admit, there's being petty and there's being petty; the green box is to 'protect' cyclists when the red light's on. That's fine, I don't have an ounce of a problem with that. Trouble is, when was the last time you saw a cyclist taking any notice of red lights

P'raps it would be better to be on the look-out for drivers using phones - on several occasions today (both on the M3 going to/coming home from Micheldever in the car and out on the S this avo) I saw vehicles meandering all over the road, out of lane, almost running into the vehicle in front of them etc, only to brake once they'd 'woken up'. In EVERY single case, the 'driver' (I use that terms loosely) was using a phone. Several of whom were texting.

Grips my sh*t.

Rant over.

[woofboxer]

Question 1 - the caution won't make much much difference as your "verbals" aren't really important as evidence in this instance.

Question 2 - don't know what you mean about the MCN letter but if it relates to cameras probably not relevant as the cop's observation is the source of evidence here.

Perhaps some of those crazy scooter riders have been taking out pedal cyclists in the City of London. But all the same, mass ticketing for that seems a bit petty when you consider some of the other stuff that goes on on the capitals roads.

Best way is to pour yourself a beer and think about the fun things you've got away with in the past!!

[bigblackfalco]

I've just been pulled by the police for £60 and 3 penalty points (Fixed Penalty Notice ( Endorsable Offence)) for having my front wheel over the first white stop line into a 'Green Cycle Box' at the traffic lights on Poultry/Cheapside in London EC3. I wasn't fully in the 'Box' and was positioned well before the second stop line where the traffic Lights are actually situated. Honestly.. I didn't know that this was an endorable/fineable offence,.. it's just something I've always done on saftey grounds really.. a lot safer than hanging between the Boy-Racers' in there 'Supa-Corsas'. However, ... the copper didnt read me the 'You have the right to remain silent.. ' statement.
Question 1: Does anybody know for a 'fact' if I should have been read the 'Warning Statement'?
Question 2: Can I use the MCN Letter in the same way that you can for 'Speed Camera' offences?

many thanks,.. and be warned,.. this is such an easy hit for the law. While I was getting my 'producer' etc, .. they clocked about 19 bikes in the same box,.. I pointed out a 'Bendy-Bus' that also entered the 'CycleBox',.. but the other coper siad that with buses,.. they would just 'note the index number and inform the bus company'. So,... it's just Motorbikes that they're after at the moment,.... woopeee.

Geoff (sorry for the added rant there)

Firstly...sorry to hear about this. Secondly, I really hope that this is just a case of bad luck (wrong place, wrong time etc) beacuse I'm always using those green boxes, like yourself, I see them as a safety zone. I've used those boxes in front of police cars before, and I often filter up 'cycle lanes' in front of cops too.
I hope this is the start of some purge by a pen pushing A-hole!
Can't you contest this by saying you were maintaining a safe distance from the vechile behind you which didn't appear to be slowing suitably?
Cheers
Bailey.

[bigblackfalco]

I pointed out a 'Bendy-Bus' that also entered the 'CycleBox',.. but the other coper siad that with buses,.. they would just 'note the index number and inform the bus company'.
Geoff (sorry for the added rant there)

This boiling my blood a lot. I would've demanded the policeman's id number and station details.Then I would have reported him for unfairly picking on one type of vechile and turning a blind eye to another offence.
Bailey.

[Ade B]

Shit - I am always in the green box and like Bailey have done it in front of police cars in the past.

I was under the impression that it was not an offence to enter one as it is only advisory. This came on reasonable authority however I'm not so sure and am currently double checking..

Things like this and parking cameras are taking the sport out of biking round the capital..

It seems rather picky given the number of traffic light/ yellow box/ over white line infringements I witness daily..

Can any of the friendly coppers on the board enlighten us further?

Ade (no longer pulling up in the green boxes)

[Duggers]

I pulled up in a green box this morning in front of police car, as does almost every other biker in London.

I wonder if it's anything to do with this report I found the other day on the TFL website. I must have been extra bored at work that day.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/downloads/pdf/behavour-at-advanced-stop-lines.pdf

Anyway, on page 41 it says motorcyclists are the biggest offenders for blocking cycles at green boxes. I've been riding to work London for years and don't ever recall blocking a cyclist, do you?

[adamski49]

Grrrr This sort of petty stuff gets on my tits!

So next time I ride into London I can filter to near the front and then wait somewhere in amongst it all instead of sitting in the safe spot at the front. Good idea... not.

I take it this applies to every set of lights and not just the ones with the advanced box for cycles? The offence is effectively the same as you're still crossing the solid white line at the lights.

Bailey, I think we're still relatively safe from this shit in Cambridge but I'll run it by my mate tomorrow night at the pub to be sure. Wonder if he'd be subject to the same thing on a training run into the smoke?

Unlucky Geoff, I don't think there's a way out of this one, it's too black and white. They must have drafted in the 'traffic warden' mentality plod to do this stuff.

Adam

[Rods]

I was under the impression that it was not an offence to enter one as it is only advisory. This came on reasonable authority however I'm not so sure and am currently double checking..

I thought that solid white lines and lane arrows were not advisory... everything else is. I think the ones around cycle boxes are solid.

As for being in a cycle box - I'm a cyclist too (and yes I have been known to jump red lights - though I also consider doing this to increase my safety - I don't want to be pulling away at the same time as the corsas etc), but I don't care if a motorbike pulls up next to me in a cyclists box - I'm hardly going to go in the middle of the box in front of mondeo man or white van man am I!

[Ade B]

As both a cyclist and motorcyclist around London I have noticed:

Most cyclists are a hazard to themselves.

They constantly shoot red lights
They seem to always put themselves in your blind spot when filtering through traffic
They never shoulder check/ make life savers
They frequently change line/lane without signaling
They often ride with no lights
They pop out perpendicular to stationary cars without looking
They get grumpy if you beep at them

I on the other hand, am a model cyclist (naturally) and only forget to shoulder check when I've been to the pub of an evening..

As for pedestrians, don't get me started

Ade.

[adamski49]

I was under the impression that it was not an offence to enter one as it is only advisory. This came on reasonable authority however I'm not so sure and am currently double checking..

I thought that solid white lines and lane arrows were not advisory... everything else is. I think the ones around cycle boxes are solid.

Solid white lines are big no, no, i.e. compulsory (Just checked my Highway Code to be sure the same applied to traffic lights) but it's rare, if unheard of to get nicked in town... until now. What do the London City bike cops do?

I used to enjoy riding in London but it's getting to be a potentially expensive trip if you 'bend' the rules.

[BrettC]

I attended the London BikeSafe course last year, and at that they made the point that if you enter the green box you have effectively jumped the lights, therefore same penalty as running a red light.

however in the bigger picture there is lot worse goes on in the middle of rush hour[s] in the capital.

Brett

[BockingBandit]

Well yes.. effectively.. i am being charged with jumping a red light,.. same offence... same penalty. Ironically.. for about the last 2 years.. i've stopped racing away from the lights becasue of cars actually jumping them against me,...... well.. obviously now I'm as bad as them.
Another 3 ponits to take on the chin.. just like the previous 6, .. all of which were in the shady area of grey.
The police actually have printed sheets that they are handing out now showing the cycle box rules. Unfortunately.. they only hand them to you along with the Penalty Notice.. not really 'pre-emptive'.

Anyway.. thanks for all the help, ...

Geoff (about to be unemployed courier)

[jltownshend]

Hmmm...not good!

I too always use the boxes; I thought they were for my convenience and safety. I was (mis)informed (it would seem) a few years ago that the boxes were advisory...

I can't see that they offer much safety for cyclists...they may be a starting grid for motorbikes, but who would want to be run over by the car behind whilst peddling furiously...

It's a bit like bus lanes...

The safety of cyclists (many of whom are their own worst enemy) is paramount, the safety of motcyclists (some of whom are their own worst enemy) is irrelevant...

I'm also concerned about bike only lanes. These have dotted lines if memory serves...Cars won't enter them, so they tend to block the middle of the road (for filtering). I have taken to using the green bike lanes instead (it's safer *and* quicker)...

Oh, and while I'm on the subject...car drivers will leave a mile when passing a cyclist (not a good time to be filtering)...but will happily drive a moped into the curb. Discuss...

[Nero]

Can't remember where I read it now, either one of the freebie london papers or on the net, but it was a couple of weeks back. Met police are targeting 20 sites in London (& no, it didn' list them), issuing tickets to any vehicle entering the green cyclists box at traffic lights.

Will search & post link, if I can find it. Hmm, much searching & can't find it, numerous mentions of it on various cycle sites (along with mumblings of number plates on push bikes) of this man being responsible.

Regardless of reading the article, I've seen no police visible at any traffic lights, and still either part or wholly 'park' myself there in front of car users for my own safety.

shit luck.

Nero