R1200S first ride impressions.....

Velociphile · Post by **Velociphile** » Sat May 13, 2006 4:40 pm

...

In a word: WAY Disappointed. Ok, that's 2 words. Reports of a German Ducati have been much exaggerated.

Engine: Not enough bottom end - torque dip at 5500, calibration is clearly immature. I would expect a s/ware update at 1st service it's so bad, they must have rushed the release. Pops and bangs on run/overrun. Surging on cruise at 30 in 2nd. The amount of stretchiness in the throttle mapping is awful. You need to wind on what feels like 1/8th of a turn to get anything and have to readjust the way you wind on the gas i.e earlier and quicker, more. No way powerful enough - especially after all the hype. Feels like VFR800 performance.
Gearbox: inaccurate, heavy, - 1to2nd got me neutral on occasion. 1st to 2nd at WOT a particularly nasty shift. You also cannot seem to blip on downshifts you have to take an absolute fistful because of the stretchiness and with a 'backfire'. Then you get the classic swaying of the rear as you go down the box as the revs are only matched by your DIY slipper clutch....
Driveline: shunty-disconnected feel.
Brakes: Fab feel, good weight, late intrusion of ABS.
Handling: Fine, for a roadbike - front is a bit remote but miles better than the R1100s, but nowhere near 999. Nice and neutral in a turn - good effort. Good feel of traction on the power. Weave cuts in at 20mph with hands off the bars.
Riding position: far too relaxed for a 'sports bike'. Feels like a roadster after the 999.
Seat comfort: Better than expected after sitting on it at Ally Pally show. Not bad after 1h test ride.

There you go. Got my deposit back anyway.

Velociphile

stubox · Post by **stubox** » Sat May 13, 2006 7:25 pm

Two words. Love it.

For anyone to believe this is a possible competitor for a 999 tho and you've fell for the beemer hype!

Engine - smoother than my gs1200 , pick up is slow because of this odd non linear throttle but once you've ridden it for a bit you forget about it. Only up to 5000rpm so far but more SV1000 than 999..
Gearbox - sooo much better than my GS and old 1100s. No false neutrals , 2-3-4-5-6 is snick snick. Not GSX-R by any means but much better than I expected.
Brakes - nice , prefer to the servo assist so far
Comfort - good for a sportsbike , bit of weight on wrists around town (more than I remember on the S) but comfy legs. Just as well as we're off to Italy in 2 weeks.
Ride - got ohlins - is 'compliant' soaks up the bumps nicely
Handling - felt ok , needs some effort to move around compared to a proper sports bike. See what happens when the tyres (Pilot Powers)are scrubbed in.
Quality - good. Nothing obviously bad.

So for what I want - a mile munching sporty twin - I think its great.

Velociphile why not look at a RSVR sounds more your type. I'd love one but my knees don;t!

Stu

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Sat May 13, 2006 8:36 pm

Guys - always good to hear reports, from both sides of the love it/loathe it fence

I've a couple of days off this coming week so will endeavour to get a spin on the New Bike. Will also (hopefully) get a wizz on the bike I'd be interested in from a potential owning perspective - the 800S.

Stu - know what you mean re the non-linear throttle. The Streetrod has the same which took a while to get used to - 4300 miles later I love it. Makes for really easy low-speed throttle control, but give it a big handful and 'Whhoooosh!' Reckon it's a great idea, given time.

izustu · Post by **izustu** » Sun May 14, 2006 5:59 am

I took one out yesterday for an hour, and these are my impressions.

Engine- Felt strong both on and off throttle. Higher compression? I had no issues with throttle response, in fact I accidentally pulled a wheelie pulling away from some lights.

Obviously engine not fully loosened up, but my first impressions were significant improvement over my 40K S engine with y piece.

Gearbox/Transmission- Clutch less up changes no problem except 1-2 and 5-6 naturally. Smoother than average Beemer box, but no Suzuki box. About the same as a Honda box. Clutch was smooth. Improvement on my S.

Handling- This bike felt far more flick able and held an excellent line in long fast corners. Still managed to keep that stability we all like on bumpy roads. (Forgot to look to see if there was a damper, sorry!) Ohlins on mine felt like, well Ohlins! However, they weren’t set up to my taste. Steering was precise, but slower than GSXR/R1 et al. I would position this bike between Sports Touring and Sports. This is no R1 but personally that’s fine by me. Full on Sports bikes lose a bit of usability for me personally.

Ergonomics. Screen was almost none existent! I’d want to invest in a ‘Double Bubble’ Comfort wasn’t bad, and got better as the ride went on. Seat was nice for an hour. Riding position suited me at 5’7’’ and 11 and a half stone. Not very good for luggage etc.

I enjoyed the bike, and loved the looks. Spent some time yesterday talking to SLM staff and they were there usual excellent selves. It deserves to be a success, and I’d buy one if I had the money.

The new F800 Sport also looked good.

Nigel · Post by **Nigel** » Sun May 14, 2006 4:47 pm

Here's my Euros worth.

Got to try R1200S, followed straight after by F800 followed by K1200S.

R1200S I deliberately didn't read any road tests on this bike before riding to get my opinion only.

Now you got to remember i come from 2 years on CBR600RR after 5 years on an "S". Comfortable handle bar position and foot pegs. Seat does the old "S" habit of pushing your crutch into the tank.Initially felt smooth on take up and then everything else is dire. No low down power very harsh 4k plus, horrible at slow speed couldn't work out what gear to stay in.. Crap transmission although probably only good after serious mileage like all Boxers. Forget upward clutchless gearchanges. Steered reasonably.
Overall very, very dissapointed, this is a bridge too far for this engine.
4 out of 10

F800

Far better than the new "S".

Smooth, nice riding position, easy to ride, gearchange smooth,sweet engine and plenty nippy enough. You could ride this quicker than the "S" with less effort.

Overall great do anything bike 7.5 out of 10

K1200S

Ultra comfortable, liquid smooth, awesome power, ride all day in total comfort. Weight disapears once on the move. Totally planted with compliant suspension.
A serious distance motorcycle.Only thing against it is price.

9 out of 10.

Nigel

herrman · Post by **herrman** » Sun May 14, 2006 8:56 pm

Guys,
Having now seen the 1200 in the flesh I do think that the pictures don't do it justice But I'm also sure that I made the right choice (for me) when I bought another 1100S recently. The 1200 is probably to single purpose for my needs allthough I shall still be taking it out on test next Sat morning. Like many have said its the F800S that looks like being the big seller in the new range of bikes, Must admit I do like that bike and will certainly be testing one in the near future.

Peter.

bmwonder · Post by **bmwonder** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:17 am

From reading this it sounds as if they've done away with the good practcal bits of the 1100 but the new fun bits of the 1200 have not made up for it. I always found that the S when breaking and down shifting. You are right, you needed oudles of revs when blipping the throttle. In fact "blip" isn't the right description. Just too much mass in it. Sounds like BMW went to John Deere for the gearbox again. This is the same company that can make the sublime M5, they must be able to make a decent gearbox????

I will give the F800 a go. Looks like it could be a winner. Usually park next to a BCR, it was gone this morning to be replaced with a spanking new 1200S with panniers. Looks fantastic. It was a fantastic ride when I tried it, but the cost........ too rich for me. Poor sod has a nail in his brand 014s

winger · Post by **winger** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:18 am

Well i haven't ridden either the new S or 800,but test rode a K1200s a week ago and it sure as hell doesn't tally with Nigels impression,comfortable!!!! maybe after a back breaking toy,but sure as hell not after my S with high bars or my Tiger,liquid smooth!!! the bloody fuel injection was only exceeded by the tractor like transmission from 0-30mph it was just plain crap,after that it was fine and the funny thing was thats with the improved map!!!.

I saw one in the shop with Verholen bars that were slightly higher which made a difference,the performance was like being fired out of a cannon,but then i don't get many people come past me and neither of my bikes break 100hp,and to cap the lot you can't get 3000 miles out of a back tyre,so if want to do a decent trip make sure you send a spare in the post to were ever your going,it could be a good bike with some work,but crude is the word that springs to mind.

Chris

stubox · Post by **stubox** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:46 am

Not sure on the comments regarding the transmission. I can do upward changes fine on the S , did them on the GS as well with not much bother.
Downchanges are interesting as the amount of engine braking is far greater than I imagined.

As for the engine , well I'll explore the 6 + area once its had the valves adjusted at 600miles. I believe the HP version is coming with slightly more power so hope the engine can take it.

Stu

julian · Post by **julian** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:56 am

have you seen Rob's bike

I rode the R12S and F800 over the weekend.

As preciously mentioned, the S has a non linear throttle and the fuelling is a little fluffy low down but I can live with that. The torque kicks in higher up the rev range whereas my R11S will pull away in 1st just off idle. It handles beautifully with the Ohlins and 6 inch wheel and packs a big punch over 5K revs although I didn't get a chance to open her up properly. In fact I would say that it (and the 12GS) offers a pseudo-floating sensation because the increased power/torque and reduced mass combination seems to overcome the inertia/gravitational effects of it's predecessor's power/pork ratio. In other words it feels less planted than the R11S although very stable in my short experience with it. Compare riding a piece of pumice stone (R12S) to granite (R11S).

Ergonomics feel improved for the taller rider, and the ride so much lighter, nimbler and modern. The engine made a lot of high pitch whirring noises (chains and gears?) similar to a VFR or a 2V Ducati which didn't seem to equate to the engine speed. Maybe it's lighter cases or a balancer shaft but I couldn't get my head round that. On full lock the bar almost rap your knuckles on the Tupperware. The side stand looks like a cast iron potting tool from a Victorian vegetable garden designed by Fred Dibnah! Clocks were hard to read and should have been digital.

It's a revolutionary change but still shares the DNA of it's predecessor in terms of it's engine configuration, marque, and styling. That's a good thing. Overall, I liked the R12S' ride qualities (fuelling and low down torque issues acknowledged) and handome looks. If it wasn't for the cost to change I'd do it in an instant, however when I got back on my R11S I thought this is still a great bike that ticks all the right boxes, why on earth would I want to change?

Nigel · Post by **Nigel** » Mon May 15, 2006 7:52 pm

Just shows you it's all about what floats your boat!

Strange what people think as comfortable, some people tour on GXers and Blades!

Must admit when i was following the guy in front on the K1200S naked, he put it into first gear at the lights and people standing waiting visibly jumped!

Chris, with all this talk of raised bars Americas finest awaits

Nige.

winger · Post by **winger** » Mon May 15, 2006 8:16 pm

Hi Nigel

America's finest!!!! I'd rather have a gorrilla hanging of my nipple!!!!

As for the K,i road it one up and two up,the only reason being the ST Sprint was a no go'er and i'm running out of options,two up wasn't bad,the main thing being when were on the road for a fornights holiday,a 5/6 hundred mile day is pretty normal thats what i judge a bike on,the handle bar difference isn't 30mm(Verholen make e'm),but then 2 clicks on my Ohlin is like chalk and cheese!!

As for CBR 600's nice bike for the right job,my mates son rides one!!! he's second on the BSB Supersport championship,foot pegs and backing plate machined out of solid billet anyone!!!.

Chris

Che · Post by **Che** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:38 pm

One more wafer-thin first impression can't hurt. Took it out for an hour on Sunday, and was immediately surprised by the light clutch, easy and quick gear changes, quick to turn and brakes remarkably steadily.

For sure it doesn't inspire as much confidence as a 999 with all the feedback that bike gives - the 999 flattered a mediocre rider like me into faster and more precise cornering and the hardest braking I have ever risked on a bike, within 2 hours of a 4 hour demo.

On the other hand, all I could see out of the 999's mirrors was my elbows, the heat from the top of the rear cylinder was roasting my chestnuts and the clutch was a hell of a lot heavier. Chalk and cheese.

I really wanted to like the K1200S and R. But the heavy clutch made them impossible for me. Also the total absence of a rear brake plus servos making the front bite hard on the lightest touch made filtering and using the steering on lock in traffic a nightmare. I was also caught out by the K1200R not responding straight away to rolling on the accelerator in mid corner. Would unsettle the bike something rotten. Straight cut gears v. R1200S helical gears really noticeable too. Changing on the K1200S or R felt agricultural by comparison.

I enjoyed the R1200S. I didn't honestly notice the throttle not being linear in it how it responds. It doesn't run out of puff like the GS when accelerating hard. It takes the lightest of touches to tip it and in and feels very planted when cornering, it was happy over bumps, potholes and changes in camber whilst turning. Second gear is very versatile for town riding. Comfortable for a 5'10 rider though not much wind protection. I didn't find any of the vibrations intrusive, even at high speeds. Vibrates less than the current R1100S. I guess a slipper clutch would be an advantage - but not an issue for me.

Really needs a hugger to protect that shiny Ohlins spring. And why no fuel gauge? bizarre. Oh and I doubt a pillion much over 5' will want to get on the back. Ever.

If anything, I'm just not sure about it's looks.

You really should try one, it's fascinating how it can generate so many different first impressions.

So just in case I'm riding it again tomorrow.

Stevie · Post by **Stevie** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:13 am

Any of you guys know what kind of fuel you had in the tank during your test rides?
I suspect there may be a noticeable difference between running on 98 and 95 RON.

Of course, I meant 97RON, 98RON being not widely available here.

julian · Post by **julian** » Tue May 16, 2006 1:07 pm

Gromit wrote:I've a couple of days off this coming week so will endeavour to get a spin on the New Bike. Will also (hopefully) get a wizz on the bike I'd be interested in from a potential owning perspective - the 800S.

Come on Gromit, get into test pilot mode at your nearest BMW dealer.

I liked the F800 but was up and down the gearbox a lot over the 15 mile ride. It feels really light and has a suprise punch above 5k revs and a cheeky steering damper hiden below the fairing. Handles well too!