BMW-Fahrer wrote:ok Gus fair enough but you tell me why the new R1200S would have been any less "sporty" if it had decent sized tank?Or the option for a real two up seat or bags?!Tahat made the R1100S such a standout among all the sports-only bikes that the owner could decide if he wanted to do a trackday or maybe a nice ride through the alps without getting his stuff ripped off,wet or burned by the pipe...
If you are worried about the weight don't fill up the tank all the way or leave the bags/dual seat off.
B.T.W. WSB and MotoGp bike carry all 22-24 litres and as we all know they are no real sportbikes,either...
O.K. the subframe would have to be a little heavier to take the additional weight of passenger and gear but probably less than a healthy diet for most riders anyways;spend thousands to save a few pounds on carbon where you cold lose kilos on your gut...
It has to look good too,so proportions have to be right.I think you really need to speak to the designer or a shrink.
Maybe buy the ST(thats sports TOURER).
As i said before have or buy whatever floats your boat or suits your needs.Your making out that BMW are the only company to make a SPORTS model without a decent rear perch,tank capacity and bags.Didnt know that gsxr,r1,999,sp2,mv,s etc etc were all great in those departments.I say again the old S was sold as a sports tourer,this one a sports bike.Why would they want to make it tourer freindly?
gus
This thread is certainly a runner, you must be iup to pelican territory by now. some interesting points though.
Al
White/red BMW R1200R Sport
Shiny Red Honda Civic
Shiny Silver MR2 vvti Roadster. Going to be sold
White Peugeot Boxer Camper Conversion.
Battle scarred Suzuki Burgman 125,(Mrs Als) going to be sold
Suzuki VanVan 125
gus,you didn't get my point.The R1100S was a sportbike you could also use for touring and traveling,actually the only sportbike,while the new R1200S is as useless as all the other sportbikes for touring/traveling...
And that is too bad.But what is the difference of a sport-bike or sport-tourer for you anyways?It's the rider who makes the sport in a bike.If you only do trackdays or clubrace get a R6 or 999 or whatever.But for occasional trackdays,sporty streetriding and overnight trips,yearly vacation the R1100S was the ticket.Too bad the new S is not anymore,that is the point I tried to make....
The ST might be the Sport-Tourer in BMW speak but compared to the R11S it feels bland,doesn't look and handle as good and the ol R-RS was more comfortable and more practical (bigger tank,underseat storage),so no ST for me...
And for getting a R1200S for sunday mornings,posing at the pub or cafe and the 1200GS for the trip and two up with the missus,I don't have the money.Need one big that can do both like the "old" S that suddenly looks real good to me again like it did the first time 7 years ago despite the new more powerful R-1200 engine...
But if you like the new S-enjoy!
I'l keep mine and keep waiting for a replacement that is a real improvement but suddenly can understand those folks who kept and rode their R90S or 850 LeMans for decades...
You raise some good points but I seriously object to you calling the current S a sportsbike . Even at its introduction it was still an all rounder, it just happened to be the sportiest in the BMW range. Weight combined with an asthmatic engine and power sapping cat does not a sportsbike make.
Having said that it makes the S a good road bike if you make a couple of adjustments - I'll be keeping mine
Lloyd
It's not how fast you ride, it's how you ride fast.
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear
bright until you hear them speak.
I agree with both sides, Fahrer & Gus, as they've eached raised totally valid points. It'd be great to see BMW do well with a proper sportsbike - but we'll have to wait and see on that one. I just can't get the niggling feeling out of my head that it may not be quite sporty enough to appeal to the full-on sportsbike crowd.
Whatever, I'm sure it'll be a great bike to ride as it has good breeding from its predecessor
BMW-Fahrer wrote:gus,you didn't get my point.The R1100S was a sportbike you could also use for touring and traveling,actually the only sportbike,while the new R1200S is as useless as all the other sportbikes for touring/traveling...
And that is too bad.But what is the difference of a sport-bike or sport-tourer for you anyways?It's the rider who makes the sport in a bike.If you only do trackdays or clubrace get a R6 or 999 or whatever.But for occasional trackdays,sporty streetriding and overnight trips,yearly vacation the R1100S was the ticket.Too bad the new S is not anymore,that is the point I tried to make....
The ST might be the Sport-Tourer in BMW speak but compared to the R11S it feels bland,doesn't look and handle as good and the ol R-RS was more comfortable and more practical (bigger tank,underseat storage),so no ST for me...
And for getting a R1200S for sunday mornings,posing at the pub or cafe and the 1200GS for the trip and two up with the missus,I don't have the money.Need one big that can do both like the "old" S that suddenly looks real good to me again like it did the first time 7 years ago despite the new more powerful R-1200 engine...
But if you like the new S-enjoy!
I'l keep mine and keep waiting for a replacement that is a real improvement but suddenly can understand those folks who kept and rode their R90S or 850 LeMans for decades...
I got the point alright.Your unhappy with the new S because they didnt make the S you wanted.Its not the end of the world.You still have the old S and there should be a steady supply of gooduns coming on to the market when or if people change models.I,m keeping mine too,abeit with some serious modifications due to a crash i had last year.I love the old S and knew after a short time it would be a keeper.I used it all year round for nearly 6 years inc trips abroad,trackdays,going to work.Bikes can be transformed into whatever you want or need it to do.You can tour on any motorcycle if the desire takes you.Yes even the new S!
I,m not in the market for a new S either(aint got the money at the moment),but i will test ride one to see what they have come with.
gus
Gus like Gromit said there is nobody wrong and I don't think BMW did wrong offering the new S as extreme as it is but they made one big mistake by not offering a second version that would have made the current R11S and R11XXRS crowd happy.Hope they offer the options of bigger tank,real bench for two people,ST-hardluggage/rack,centerstand and adjustable bars,soon especially since the ST is not really liked.Then everyone would be happy!But just to think the Boxercup crowd and some jap-multi and Duc/Aprilia conquest sales will bring in the sales I think it will end up like with the ST as my guess...
You all have a good season!
I think BM have dropped a real clanger,just can't see who's going to buy it,there might be a few 999/ZX/YZ/ mob who let their hearts rule their heads,but it won't take long for the penny to drop,when their flat on the tank and all their mates blast past,and they certainley ain't going to put 10,000 miles on the motor to get it settle down.
Anyone who rides two up isn't, anyone who travel any distance even with the minimum of kit isn't,it should have been a modern version of the 1100,i'll give it two years tops before it goes the same way as the C1.
When it's tested,i 'll bet good money 'Great motor but the rest is to impractical fot the kind of people who buy that kind of thing'
winger wrote:I think BM have dropped a real clanger,just can't see who's going to buy it,there might be a few 999/ZX/YZ/ mob who let their hearts rule their heads,but it won't take long for the penny to drop,when their flat on the tank and all their mates blast past,and they certainley ain't going to put 10,000 miles on the motor to get it settle down.
Anyone who rides two up isn't, anyone who travel any distance even with the minimum of kit isn't,it should have been a modern version of the 1100,i'll give it two years tops before it goes the same way as the C1.
When it's tested,i 'll bet good money 'Great motor but the rest is to impractical fot the kind of people who buy that kind of thing'
winger wrote:When it's tested,i 'll bet good money 'Great motor but the rest is to impractical fot the kind of people who buy that kind of thing'
Chris
................and it's got funny indicators
Lloyd
It's not how fast you ride, it's how you ride fast.
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear
bright until you hear them speak.
Well just to be a bit contraire for a change I'm not so sure that they don't know what they're doing. Was the R1100S their biggest, or even one of their biggest sellers, or was it one of their more slow selling less popular models? I'd suggest by the 2nd hand values compared to the rest of the range that it was the latter, so what would be the sense of developing another one to hit the same audience when the first missed the (financial) target? That would be bonkers wouldn't it We all love the S. I will not be selling mine for certain, but we are just a few 'enthusiasts' compared to a bigger market that the new S is searching for. I'm quite sure that BMW will survive without us going to buy the new one - you're never going to please all the people all the time, and this time we're the people not being pleased when with the last version it was the other way around. So the fast nutter jap weeny winkle brigade will strap a big F*ck off motor between their inadequate thighs and burn off in a straight line directly to hospital and not bother about the BMW - and I don't think BMW care about that either TBH. Think about the people that spend most money on 'toy' bikes - like the Harley boys. Not all, but in the main I would suggest its a lifestyle thing. They spend a lot of money on a name they like, regardless of how good or capable the bikes actually are. There are a LOT of aging BMW riders that want to recapture their youth and that would buy the new S I reckon. Partially to massage their ego and partially beacuse they can easily afford it. I think there may be a bigger potential market for this than the old S in this respect as the bike has a more distinct role. Maybe because the new RT looks to be more 'tourer' than 'sports' this has helped to clear a space for the new S too. I would hazard a guess that a company like BMW has done some market research, and probably a load of customer clinics before deciding to produce the bike so we 'll just have to wait and see and let time be the judge. I really don;t think that our views represent (and never have represented) a very large proportion of the biking community do they:!:
I mourn the passing of the old S but things move on.
As jason stated the S was never a big seller.I remember guys on other bikes saying what the f**k is that.Sales picked up when the word got around that it was a good involving bike to ride.Also helped by the boxercup race series.I,m sure the boxercup series will raise the profile of the new S too.Lots of sportbike owners at race meetings who may like the funny looking bike going around the track.It aint gonna be a big seller like the GS range,but it will get BMW some regonition in the sportbike arena.I think they are trying to lean away from their "we only make touring bikes image"and want to be involved in the sportbike market.Remember its early days for them yet.As has been stated,time will tell.
gus
ps how many of us came from jap bikes to bmw?
. Even at its introduction it was still an all rounder, it just happened to be the sportiest in the BMW range. Weight combined with an asthmatic engine and power sapping cat does not a sportsbike make.
I'm not so sure that they don't know what they're doing. Was the R1100S their biggest, or even one of their biggest sellers, or was it one of their more slow selling less popular models? I'd suggest by the 2nd hand values compared to the rest of the range that it was the latter, so what would be the sense of developing another one to hit the same audience when the first missed the (financial) target? That would be bonkers wouldn't it 
We all love the S. I will not be selling mine for certain, but we are just a few 'enthusiasts' compared to a bigger market that the new S is searching for. I'm quite sure that BMW will survive without us going to buy the new one - you're never going to please all the people all the time, and this time we're the people not being pleased when with the last version it was the other way around. So the fast nutter jap weeny winkle brigade will strap a big F*ck off motor between their inadequate thighs and burn off in a straight line directly to hospital and not bother about the BMW - and I don't think BMW care about that either TBH. Think about the people that spend most money on 'toy' bikes - like the Harley boys. Not all, but in the main I would suggest its a lifestyle thing. They spend a lot of money on a name they like, regardless of how good or capable the bikes actually are. There are a LOT of aging BMW riders that want to recapture their youth and that would buy the new S I reckon. Partially to massage their ego and partially beacuse they can easily afford it. I think there may be a bigger potential market for this than the old S in this respect as the bike has a more distinct role. Maybe because the new RT looks to be more 'tourer' than 'sports' this has helped to clear a space for the new S too. I would hazard a guess that a company like BMW has done some market research, and probably a load of customer clinics before deciding to produce the bike so we 'll just have to wait and see and let time be the judge. I really don;t think that our views represent (and never have represented) a very large proportion of the biking community do they:!: 