R1200S - Knockout or bloody nose ?!

[theseadog]

Yes, got there Saturday morning, almost first thing. First thing to say is RIP-OFF. £14 to get in, another couple of quid for parking ( that used to be free ! ) and it just wasn't worth the effort. I now remember why I haven't been for the last five years,

Apart from the BMW, KTM, Ducati & Kawasaki stand, the rest of the show was utter sh!te. Triumph, Yamaha & Honda stands were disappointing, and that was about it. The rest of it was like a friggin flea market, except you generally get better quality kit at them ! There were even stalls knocking out dodgy fake leather Jackets, ( and very poor fakes at that )that looked like they would burst apart from a heavy sneeze let alone a crash.

Very very very poor show. I shan't be going back again, it was just taking the p!ss the prices for what was on show, two small halls filled with for the most part tripe.

The 1200S looks a lot better in the flesh I have to say ( colgate paint job) and the ergonomics for me were almost identical to the 11. Back end still looks like a baboons ares though !

Big surprise for me was the Ducati Multi Stroodle Noodle thing. Looks ridiculous from front on, but gorgeous everywhere else. Comfy too, and the 1000S DS has Ohlins rear and Ohlins Forks for an extra £700, bloody bargin, oh and some bits of cardboard finger, or something like that ! Damned comfy too I have to say, so I've got a test ride end of this week or next week, depending on when this weather gives us a break.

So, if you missed out on the Sunday, count your blessings, it was a crap show, run by muppets, and too exspensive for what was there, I'd have grudged them even a fiver to be honest.

Toodle Pip

[ianc53]

I set off on the Sunday morning from deepest Fife and after a very snowy 5 mile trundle down some country lanes got to the main road and decided it wasn't going to be worth it. 5 minutes later Andrew S confirmed it was off, so I'm glad I didn't go any further.

I've been the last few years and TBH found it pretty poor. When the highlight is the Carole Nash Classics bit then you know it's bad. Would have been good to see the new S tho., and the Griso and Breva

Cheers

Ian

[Gromit]

Are belts able to withstand 200bhp and still be efficent?
Chains are still the best deal both cost wise and efficent wise.However fliud transmission systems may be the future.
gus

Actually Gus, a belt is the most efficient transmitter of power owing to its lack of moving parts compared to a chain.

My Harley donks out around 96lbs of torque and has very harsh firing pulses, so I'd say the belts are pretty strong. I remember seeing an ad where they'd picked up a 3-ton truck attached to a crane by one.

[Stevie]

Hasn't the new F800S got a belt drive? If this is succesful, perhaps the 1200S successor may go this way too.

[Gromit]

Hasn't the new F800S got a belt drive? If this is succesful, perhaps the 1200S successor may go this way too.

Indeed it has.

I doubt that any future 1200S would have a belt, owing to the fact that the final drive would have to be turned through 90 degrees to make it work. Thing is, for a boxer, the shaft is the most logical way of transmitting power.

That's unless of course BMW bring out a 1200cc parallel sports twin.

[Stevie]

Hasn't the new F800S got a belt drive? If this is succesful, perhaps the 1200S successor may go this way too.

Indeed it has.

I doubt that any future 1200S would have a belt, owing to the fact that the final drive would have to be turned through 90 degrees to make it work. Thing is, for a boxer, the shaft is the most logical way of transmitting power.

That's unless of course BMW bring out a 1200cc parallel sports twin.

Hadn't thought about that

[Gromit]

Hadn't thought about that

Doesn't stop it being a nice idea though.

[hjr1100s]

Big surprise for me was the Ducati Multi Stroodle Noodle thing. Looks ridiculous from front on, but gorgeous everywhere else. Comfy too, and the 1000S DS has Ohlins rear and Ohlins Forks for an extra £700, bloody bargin, oh and some bits of cardboard finger, or something like that ! Damned comfy too I have to say, so I've got a test ride end of this week or next week, depending on when this weather gives us a break.

Wanna buy? Asking €7500,- for a 2 year old 15.000 km Multithingy ...

It's worth a test ride. It will be a laugh, but remember that suspension setting can mess up roadholder capabilities very easy. It needs to be set to your personal weight and taste. You will need to adapt to the diving of the front suspension while braking. You're just not used to it anymore when coming from a BMW

HJ

[gus]

Are belts able to withstand 200bhp and still be efficent?
Chains are still the best deal both cost wise and efficent wise.However fliud transmission systems may be the future.
gus

Actually Gus, a belt is the most efficient transmitter of power owing to its lack of moving parts compared to a chain.

My Harley donks out around 96lbs of torque and has very harsh firing pulses, so I'd say the belts are pretty strong. I remember seeing an ad where they'd picked up a 3-ton truck attached to a crane by one.

I stand corrected then.
I thought cause a belt is typically wider than a chain,there would be a greater loss.
gus

[BMW-Fahrer]

Beltdrive is the 2nd best solution when it comes to driving the rearwheel;stones can damage the wheel and dirt will wear beltsprockets,too.That they don't use belts in racing has 2 reasons;first in racing they are not concerned with longevity and ease of maintenance,they don't even use O or X rig chains and replace them every race anyways and secont with the 200+hp WSB or MotoGP bikes the belt would be too wide to fit inside the narrow swingarm...But racing is one thing and streetriding a completely other.If you look at the cost of racebikes and the ones they sell the only similarity between are Race-999-Blade-GSXR and the stocker who can buy is the sticker on the tank...
That it is why it is so disappointing for me that BMW follows now the image nonsense that a "true" sportbike needs to have a small tank,solo seat,no cenerstand and hard luggage.At least the bicycle-chain is not part of the package,yet...
With a 24 litre tank which looks it would have been easy to put under that huge plastic tankcover,harbag,luggagerack,dualseat,adjustable bar and centerstand option the new R1200S would have been a knockout among sportbikes actually useable for more than the occasional trackday or brawl to the pub...What a pity!
PS:The new F800 looks like a nice bike with pluses of beltdrie,ABS and factory bags over it's SV,Fazer,Hornet,650 Ninja competition even if the bags are the hopelessly too small K1200S bags...I won't buy one because I like the boxer and keep my R1100S until the get the new one right.
Multistradas,ST3 would be fine if it wasn't for the high wear/hig maintenance Desmo-B.S. and if they would replace the chain for the cambelt(s) and the cambelt(s) for the chainreardrive...

[sandbar]

............... a belt is the most efficient transmitter of power owing to its lack of moving parts compared to a chain.

Are you sure???

sandbar

[nab 301]

[quote="BMW-Fahrer"]PS:The new F800 looks like a nice bike with pluses of beltdrie,ABS and factory bags over it's SV,Fazer,Hornet,650 Ninja competition even if the bags are the hopelessly too small K1200S bags...I won't buy one because I like the boxer and keep my R1100S until the get the new one right.
quote]

Think it only has a 16l tank tho

[gus]

Beltdrive is the 2nd best solution when it comes to driving the rearwheel;stones can damage the wheel and dirt will wear beltsprockets,too.That they don't use belts in racing has 2 reasons;first in racing they are not concerned with longevity and ease of maintenance,they don't even use O or X rig chains and replace them every race anyways and secont with the 200+hp WSB or MotoGP bikes the belt would be too wide to fit inside the narrow swingarm...But racing is one thing and streetriding a completely other.If you look at the cost of racebikes and the ones they sell the only similarity between are Race-999-Blade-GSXR and the stocker who can buy is the sticker on the tank...
That it is why it is so disappointing for me that BMW follows now the image nonsense that a "true" sportbike needs to have a small tank,solo seat,no cenerstand and hard luggage.At least the bicycle-chain is not part of the package,yet...
With a 24 litre tank which looks it would have been easy to put under that huge plastic tankcover,harbag,luggagerack,dualseat,adjustable bar and centerstand option the new R1200S would have been a knockout among sportbikes actually useable for more than the occasional trackday or brawl to the pub...What a pity!
PS:The new F800 looks like a nice bike with pluses of beltdrie,ABS and factory bags over it's SV,Fazer,Hornet,650 Ninja competition even if the bags are the hopelessly too small K1200S bags...I won't buy one because I like the boxer and keep my R1100S until the get the new one right.
Multistradas,ST3 would be fine if it wasn't for the high wear/hig maintenance Desmo-B.S. and if they would replace the chain for the cambelt(s) and the cambelt(s) for the chainreardrive...

Blah!Blah!Blah!Yadda!Yadda!Yadda!
Sports bikes are built funnily enough for sport.So they dont need big tanks,they dont need any luggage capability,they dont have to be comfortable etc etc.All they have to do is deliver sports performance.Not just horsepower,but handling.Its the sportiest BMW with a boxer engine(apart from the HP2)which is an attraction to some.The current 1100s was the sportiest boxer engined BMW.It is in essence a sports tourer,hence the dual seat,luggage etc etc.They have just upped the antae.Some of us lean alittle more towards sports riding than touring,so we have modified acordingly.Some like touring.What ever floats ya boat.
gus

[BMW-Fahrer]

ok Gus fair enough but you tell me why the new R1200S would have been any less "sporty" if it had decent sized tank?Or the option for a real two up seat or bags?!Tahat made the R1100S such a standout among all the sports-only bikes that the owner could decide if he wanted to do a trackday or maybe a nice ride through the alps without getting his stuff ripped off,wet or burned by the pipe...
If you are worried about the weight don't fill up the tank all the way or leave the bags/dual seat off.
B.T.W. WSB and MotoGp bike carry all 22-24 litres and as we all know they are no real sportbikes,either...
O.K. the subframe would have to be a little heavier to take the additional weight of passenger and gear but probably less than a healthy diet for most riders anyways;spend thousands to save a few pounds on carbon where you cold lose kilos on your gut...

[Gromit]

Are you sure???

sandbar

Yes.

I remember an article years ago by the late (and very great) John Robinson who did the maths on this very subject relating to the physics behind the loss of energy through a chain, shaft and belt. I can't remember the exact figures, but although a belt was only a tiny amount (around 1%) more efficient than a chain, it was measurable nonetheless.