Hi Viz

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fontana

Postby fontana » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:21 pm

Herb wrote:Same with motorcycle accidents. The law says you only have to wear a helmet, but don't expect the insurer to pay in full if you get knocked of wearing nothing but a helmet and a pair of shorts.



Sorry but that is just plain wrong.
As the law stands, if you sustain injuries that you may not have done, as a result of not wearing protective clothing, it makes no difference to the claim, because there is no legal requirement and you have not broken the law.
An insurer simply cannot wriggle out of a claim if all points of legality in relation the vehicle and rider have been met.
That is to say, he or she is wearing an approved crash helmet, and the bike is roadworthy
That's about it.
No insurer can reduce the amount payable if these criteria have been met.
Oh they may try, but it would never stand up in court.
That would be like saying that a driver is partly responsible for any burns he or she receives if their car goes up in a ball of flames after a collision, because they didn't wear a flame retardant suit.
It's utterly ridiculous.
Where does it end.
The only time blame can be apportioned, is if it could be proven that the rider contributed to the collision.

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Herb
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Postby Herb » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:39 pm

Sorry you're wrong. Claims are often reduced for contributory negligence, including for not wearing the correct gear as advised (but not mandated) in the Highway Code.

Lose a foot because your riding in flip flops, your claim will be reduced. Simple as.
********Jim********
---------------------------
2006 'Colgate' R1200s

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Blackal
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Postby Blackal » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:51 pm

Not sure if these guys - want to be seen.......... or not?

Image

Al :?
If I am ever on life support - Unplug me......
Then plug me back in..........

See if that works .....
:?

fontana

Postby fontana » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:56 pm

Herb wrote:Sorry you're wrong. Claims are often reduced for contributory negligence, including for not wearing the correct gear as advised (but not mandated) in the Highway Code.

Lose a foot because your riding in flip flops, your claim will be reduced. Simple as.


You are under NO legal obligation to wear anything other than a crash helmet.
So despite fulfilling your legal obligations, insurers are reducing payouts based on their perceptions of what is right or not?
So in the context of this thread, what you appear to be saying is that if you are not wearing hi viz, and have a collision, then your payout will be reduced.
That is absolute garbage.
I'd love to see and example of that.

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Herb
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Postby Herb » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:09 pm

fontana wrote:
Herb wrote:Sorry you're wrong. Claims are often reduced for contributory negligence, including for not wearing the correct gear as advised (but not mandated) in the Highway Code.

Lose a foot because your riding in flip flops, your claim will be reduced. Simple as.


You are under NO legal obligation to wear anything other than a crash helmet.
So despite fulfilling your legal obligations, insurers are reducing payouts based on their perceptions of what is right or not?
So in the context of this thread, what you appear to be saying is that if you are not wearing hi viz, and have a collision, then your payout will be reduced.
That is absolute garbage.
I'd love to see and example of that.


This is the high profile pedestrian case I mentioned earlier.

http://road.cc/content/news/75692-insur ... s-clothing

Loads of examples regarding lack of correct riding gear affecting payout. (Very common for cyclists not wearing helmets).

The quote below is from about half way down this page:

http://www.cassellmoore.com/blog/motorc ... s-to-blame

As can be seen, legal liability in motorcycle injuries is not straightforward. There are many cases in which liability is disputed or unclear. Other factors that may lead to a finding of contributory negligence include:

Failure to wear a crash helmet
Failure to wear other protective clothing
Failure to wear visible clothing in the day and reflective clothing at night

Bikes n bones by any chance?
********Jim********

---------------------------

2006 'Colgate' R1200s

fontana

Postby fontana » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:18 pm

The first link suggests that the insurers tried to reduce a payout.
Neither of those links show any specific cases where a claim has been reduced in respect of lack of hi viz.
That is what I was hoping to see

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/insurance ... -a-claim-/

fontana

Postby fontana » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:28 pm

Oh and in that first link in relation to the cyclist.
You should have read it a bit more carefully.
The case for no hi viz was thrown out.

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milleplod
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Postby milleplod » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:27 pm

fontana wrote:The first link suggests that the insurers tried to reduce a payout.
Neither of those links show any specific cases where a claim has been reduced in respect of lack of hi viz.
That is what I was hoping to see

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/insurance ... -a-claim-/


'Half-decent lawyers' don't kick anything out - the judiciary do that, or don't. Personally, I wouldn't be relying on anything I'd read in MCN.....:roll:

I can't be arsed to dig out the case, but some years ago, Lord Denning, sitting in the Appeal Court, quite rightly stated that the Highway Code doesn't rule that we must wear protective stuff, it says, in effect, that we're free to choose - if we don't do it, we can't be punished. Denning said, though, that not wearing stuff wasn't the sensible thing to do.

He also said....and this is important, because compensation is usually a matter for civil courts, not criminal ones - that the HC can be relied on in civil proceedings 'as tending to establish or negative liability'. He referred to 'the legal requirement of taking all precautions as a normally prudent person would take'.

So, it most certainly does follow that your compo could be adversely affected if you choose to wear shorts and flip-flops on the daily commute and get wiped up and injured, even if its not your fault. That's because its not what the prudent rider would do.

Pete
Nocto Diuque Venamur

fontana

Postby fontana » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:14 am

milleplod wrote:
fontana wrote:So, it most certainly does follow that your compo could be adversely affected if you choose to wear shorts and flip-flops on the daily commute and get wiped up and injured, even if its not your fault. That's because its not what the prudent rider would do.

Pete


Sorry but I started this thread on the subject of Hi Viz
ATGATT is a completely different subject.
So basically, you're saying that not wearing hi viz would reduce a claim against a third party.
Well I know from my own experience that it does not.
Two years ago I got taken off at a roundabout, at night by a lorry which pulled out.
Sure, visibility was questioned, and I was asked what I was wearing.
This concerned me, but my own insurance company advised me that not wearing it would have no impact on my claim, and it didn't

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milleplod
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Postby milleplod » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:57 am

fontana wrote:
milleplod wrote:
fontana wrote:So, it most certainly does follow that your compo could be adversely affected if you choose to wear shorts and flip-flops on the daily commute and get wiped up and injured, even if its not your fault. That's because its not what the prudent rider would do.

Pete


Sorry but I started this thread on the subject of Hi Viz
ATGATT is a completely different subject.
So basically, you're saying that not wearing hi viz would reduce a claim against a third party.
Well I know from my own experience that it does not.
Two years ago I got taken off at a roundabout, at night by a lorry which pulled out.
Sure, visibility was questioned, and I was asked what I was wearing.
This concerned me, but my own insurance company advised me that not wearing it would have no impact on my claim, and it didn't


You mentioned 'not wearing protective clothing' a few threads ago.....you said "As the law stands, if you sustain injuries that you may not have done, as a result of not wearing protective clothing, it makes no difference to the claim, because there is no legal requirement and you have not broken the law".

Was your case decided in court, or by insurance companies/solicitors? The latter type of settlement has no bearing whatsoever on cases that follow, the former may well do....but Lord Denning's rulings could impact on any claim.

Pete
Nocto Diuque Venamur

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dark_knight87
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Postby dark_knight87 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:26 pm

I have started to wear my hi-viz now the clocks have gone back (just a normal vest type - no stupid messages!) - On my way home from work I use several un-lit country lanes etc.

One thing I have found is that drivers do seem to notice me earlier and move over further if I need to filter (maybe they mistaken me for a cop!)

Although this happened last week, an unmarked police car noticed me then decided to flash his lights at me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFOtEZLhuKM

Regards,
Russ
It started badly, it tailed off a little in the middle and the less said about the end the better, but apart from that it was excellent.

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The Teutonic Tangerine
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Postby The Teutonic Tangerine » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:49 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFOtEZLhuKM

Hmm this video is private? Says You tube
There would appear to be a surfeit of prolixity and sesquipedalian content today please do not use a big word when a singularly un-loquacious and diminutive linguistic expression will satisfactorily accomplish the contemporary necessity

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dark_knight87
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Postby dark_knight87 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:32 pm

Apologies, not any more!

Regards,
Russ
It started badly, it tailed off a little in the middle and the less said about the end the better, but apart from that it was excellent.

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Britisherspy
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Postby Britisherspy » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:08 pm

dark_knight87 wrote:Apologies, not any more!

Regards,
Russ


What was that all about then?

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Britisherspy
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Postby Britisherspy » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:09 pm

If I wear Hi vis, the reflection in the clocks and screen is a distraction.

You cant be seen from behind anyway with a massive top box on


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