Rear Wheel Nuts to Tight.

[tapper54]

Hi all, HELP,taking wheels in today for new shoes,cant get the bloody rear wheel nuts undone,any tips !!

[Gromit]

4 for future ref- use some copper grease

NEVER use copper grease on wheel studs - it even says so quite categorically in the service manual.

[f90x]

4 for future ref- use some copper grease

NEVER use copper grease on wheel studs - it even says so quite categorically in the service manual.

+1

[Dai wiskers]

Nip down to your local motor factor and pick up a breaker bar at least 2' long this should do the job if it's not possible you could try a bit of scaffold pole over your short one in your socket set but don't try this if all you have is a ratchet
Infact it's time for another top tip
Do not use anything with a ratchet for undoing things always use a breaker bar impact bar or rattle gun for undoing things
A good affordable impact gun is the Clarke mains powered one it's a heavy bit of kit but remember you don't need a compressor just an extension lead
If you have no power available get yourself a impact bar the draper professional one is as good as a snap on one and comes at about a third of the price if you look around

[Dai wiskers]

The problem with using copper grease is people use to much and it's better to use none than too much a slight smear on the threads is fine but any on the bolt end can cause a hydraulic lock causing damage to whatever you're putting the bolt into or if you're lucky enough not to cause any damage the torque settings will be way out
The same applies to thread lock if you know how to use it it's a great thing to have but use it wrong it can be your worse enemy

[Gromit]

My bad... but worked for me zillion times- never seized for bad, just a nice ping when undoing

Fairy muff - it's just that I had a new rear tyre put on my very first 1100S some years ago but the local tyre fitter and he copaslipped the wheels bolts. I only noticed a week or so later when taking the wheel out to spring clean the bike and thought 'that can't be right'. Told the mechanic at the BMW dealer about this and he went ballistic!

Apparently it can (not necessarily will I should add) damage the alloy wheel as it causes it to to be drawn too tight to the hub when trying to achieve the 105Nm on the wrench. I always just used to undo and re-do the bolts every couple of months, that way they'll never seize in (saying that I've never had a wheel bolt seize in over 100k miles on Boxers). Only takes a min or two.

[sandbar]

..........as it causes it to to be drawn too tight to the hub when trying to achieve the 105Nm on the wrench.

I am just putting my anorak on!

I totally understand the point that 105 Nm on a lubricated thread is not the same as 105 Nm on a dry thread. However 105 Nm on a lubricated thread is always going to be pretty much the same, irrespective of which type of grease is used. On the other hand there are dry threads and there are DRY threads. 105 Nm on new dry threads is going to be very different to 105 Nm on corroded manky threads, when a lot of the torque being applied will just be overcoming the friction.

It would also be of relevance to find out if new wheel nuts have anything on them - like micro-encapsulation!

Just a thought. I think we need Bob's help here.

Just in case you were thinking of asking, I do them up dry.

sandbar

[tanneman]

Wet torque and dry torque. As you can guess wet is with the thread lubricated and the manual will state what lubricant to use when applicable. If you have worked on helicopters you may have come across this more often than not. Basically a wet torque will be much lower to achieve the same tightness than a dry torque. Torque is also calculated as to not stretch the metal past the elastic range when you view it on a Young's modulus graph. Once past the elastic range the metal weakens considerably. So now you have tightened a rear wheel bolt on a lubricated thread to dry torque standard. This is a safety critical component which you might have damaged. For peace of mind I would change the bolts and have a good look at the threads on the carrier.

As for the bolts that seize on the thread. All you can do is clean the threads properly before putting it back on and use a breaker bar to loosen it. Remember that in order to get something to move you use twice the effort to initiate the movement than to keep it moving at a uniform pace, this only applies to a uniform force being applied and not a shock load.

[sandbar]

Wet torque and dry torque. As you can guess wet is with the thread lubricated and the manual will state what lubricant to use when applicable. If you have worked on helicopters you may have come across this more often than not. Basically a wet torque will be much lower to achieve the same tightness than a dry torque. Torque is also calculated as to not stretch the metal past the elastic range when you view it on a Young's modulus graph. Once past the elastic range the metal weakens considerably. So now you have tightened a rear wheel bolt on a lubricated thread to dry torque standard. This is a safety critical component which you might have damaged. For peace of mind I would change the bolts and have a good look at the threads on the carrier.

As for the bolts that seize on the thread. All you can do is clean the threads properly before putting it back on and use a breaker bar to loosen it. Remember that in order to get something to move you use twice the effort to initiate the movement than to keep it moving at a uniform pace, this only applies to a uniform force being applied and not a shock load.

I understand all that perfectly.

The point I was trying to make (perhaps badly) was that the motorcycle (and car) world is miles away from the aviation industry and it would probably serve bikes better if they quoted a lubricated torque in order to get some sort of consistency. Unless aviation standards are used throughout there will be some wide variations around. How many tyre fitting places will clean the threads (inside and out) before replacing.

In any event, if you are using wrecker bars (and/or scaffold poles) then there is a good chance that the bolt has been taken outside its elastic range and should be replaced.

sandbar

[Merecat]

Bloody hell Young's modulus graph!! Takes me back to my college days and Suzuki GT250s!


Mick

[dave the german]

I think there was a well documented case of a rear wheel coming off (or at least coming VERY loose) and the blame being firmly placed on lubed up nuts (oo er missus!!)

[dorsetboy]

Well,
I put a just a dab of copaslip on the wheel nut threads
No worries and no seized nuts.
Look for corrosion on the wheel hub face.
Clean and lightly grease before fitting.
Theres 10% either way on the torque when fitting, how many folk torque wheel nuts up?

Well?

Rgds Mike.

[Blackal]

On your bike or mine????

Best thing to put on the threads is a low-yield threadlock (nutlock) - I reckon.

It lubricates the thread slightly on tightening, and in use - doesn't allow the bolt to back-off.

Al

[f90x]

didn't someone post up some pics of what happens to bolts tightened with copaslip on them a couple of years ago as a warning. they were deformed quite badly as i recall.

[Dai wiskers]

Well,
I put a just a dab of copaslip on the wheel nut threads
No worries and no seized nuts.
Look for corrosion on the wheel hub face.
Clean and lightly grease before fitting.
Theres 10% either way on the torque when fitting, how many folk torque wheel nuts up?

Well?

Rgds Mike.

That's the way i do mine and have been doing for years

Just remember never put it in any female thread