LC Boxer latest

bricking it · Post by **bricking it** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:13 pm

Great stuff, very impressive. While there is loads of unsprung mass on the bimmer, that doesnt affect the suspension much on the smooth track, but surely gives the benefit under heavy braking right to the apexes !

peter f · Post by **peter f** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:50 pm

well...

1. TeleSomething: doesn't alter camper/trail/etc under braking. This means "stability" but at a high price (a certain anesthesia to be exact). What means steering anesthesia? Just drive a Lotus Elan (or ride a 1198s: best front end known to mankind). OK if Lotus is unavailable try a Mazda Miata MX5.

2. ParaSomething: some positive arguments should exist but I can't recall anything right now, he he. But wait: Immortal Moto Guzzi LeMans used a similar thing. Bad news: that was 30 years ago.

In any case if these things could gain another 0.00001 msec in tracks/races...well any Super Bike replica and/or WSB and/or MotoGP missile could have a similar system.

Bimota Tesi/Vyrus anyone?

http://www.vyrus.it/

He He

sandbar · Post by **sandbar** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:41 pm

Peter - what can I say!! Give us a break!! You seem to me to obsess about unbelievably obscure minutia that appear to have no relevance to the real world. Note - I said the real world!

You commented that the front suspension on the Boxers was no good for 'sport usage'. I provided a link that showed the exact opposite, but still you would not have any of it.

I will try again. Read the bottom portion of this page. Just in case you do not know, Richard Cooper has raced Boxer BMWs for BMW UK and BMW Germany for ten years or so. He has also raced a lot of other bikes over that period. I would suggest that he knows what he is talking about.

You may well be right about the electronic gizmos that you keep on about, but IMHO you are wrong about the suspension. And I would add that the suspension on those works HP2 Sport bikes was a lot closer to the standard bike than on most of the IL4 Superbikes that they were competing with.

To everybody else, I am sorry about including a page from 'that' article, but I do not know how to split a jpg file.

sandbar

bricking it · Post by **bricking it** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:13 pm

I never lost the front on the bmw at any point in a bend, but I have on other bikes, its a numb sensation , but its very safe. (for a bike)

gus · Post by **gus** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:48 pm

Hi all
I would think tyres would play a very large part in the amount of feel you get from a front end rather than the suspension type. IMHO.
Gus

peter f · Post by **peter f** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:21 am

gus wrote:Hi all
I would think tyres would play a very large part in the amount of feel you get from a front end rather than the suspension type. IMHO.
Gus

Well...

modern tires are all "good" (the likes of Metz M5 etc etc).

Other than that, to make a long story short, personally I would exchange feeling for "efficiency" any time (sport usage obviously). This is NOT to say that some/many people like (or rave) the BMW R suspension solutions. But on the other hand there's people who accept servo brakes in motorcycles (in the name of "efficiency").

BTW: Component quality (shocks, tires) has nothing to do with steering/braking feeling. For instance I use these shocks:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/5148954-post29.html

with these settings:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/5125124-post84.html

For the anesthesia bit: add the effect of the whole kinematic mechanism to the rubber mount assembly (spot the "bolt" in the WP 4014 spin, instead of a classic linkage)

Steve1200S · Post by **Steve1200S** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:20 am

sandbar wrote:
bricking it wrote:I would love to see that video, any chance of a link ?
I am sorry - I misremembered (as Hilary Clinton might say!!). It was not so much shaking his fist as gesticulating with his head! About 1:20 into this clip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMDAsSsaXZE

Oh Yes! That suspension is absolutely no good at all for sport usage

sandbar

If those other bikes are R1s, I'm most impressed by the fact that the HP2 keeps up so well on the fast bits! That thing shifts!

BTW, I know a very smart guy who has a masters in mechanical engineering, and is a long time downhill mountain bike suspension guru/nerd! He's even done suspension setups for racing cars. He was amazed by the BMW suspension system when I showed him some CAD models of an RT suspension.

Apparently it's the best system for the space/component weight avilible.

I agree and the only reason conventional forks win out on sports bikes is weight, on race bikes because they don't have to do as much(dont have to deal with a varying amount of situations) as a road bike.

I loath riding mates bikes now, conventional forks feel soggy and IMHO, just cloud the feedback your getting with brake dive....

peter f · Post by **peter f** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:05 pm

Anyway, here's the first test:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/857/15409 ... -Ride.aspx

Neil178 · Post by **Neil178** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:16 pm

After the chocolate engines in the 996 and early 997 I think that Porsche should've learnt a few things by now but they would be last on my list of people to help with design.

peter f · Post by **peter f** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:55 am

well...we live in the Age of Outsourcing : remember who designed the K1300 series engines? (Ricardo, that is).

el-nicko · Post by **el-nicko** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:04 pm

Did Ricardo design the K1300 engines? Though I believe they were involved right from the start with the 1600/6s I thought they merely 'upgraded' (and apparently much improved) the original K1200 motors. Oh, and did'nt they have something to do with parts of the Bugatti Veyron drivetrain that enables the transmission of 1001bhp

to all 4 roadwheels. 3 cheers for 'Outsourcing' there then eh?

peter f · Post by **peter f** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:55 am

el-nicko wrote:3 cheers for 'Outsourcing' there then eh?

Hmm...

1. I have no sympathy for K1300 engines/bikes (these things are not sport bikes... thus why bother talking?, he he)

2. K1600: better design a robot whale than these. Luddites all over the world (re)unite. See 3 as well.

3. Veyron : this is THE art of pointless (and pig ugly aesthetic wise). Unreasonable excess in any imaginable way just because Supreme Czar Ferdinand Piech wanted the "ultimate" (in nonsense).

Imagine the greatest ever (Gordon Murray) designing the greatest ever (McLaren F1) that way...(but - alas - even that thing was due ... er... to outsourcing).

Moral: less is more

el-nicko · Post by **el-nicko** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:18 pm

peter f wrote:
1. I have no sympathy for K1300 engines/bikes (these things are not sport bikes... thus why bother talking?, he he)

2. K1600: better design a robot whale than these. Luddites all over the world (re)unite. See 3 as well.

3. Veyron : this is THE art of pointless (and pig ugly aesthetic wise). Unreasonable excess in any imaginable way just because Supreme Czar Ferdinand Piech wanted the "ultimate" (in nonsense).

Imagine the greatest ever (Gordon Murray) designing the greatest ever (McLaren F1) that way...(but - alas - even that thing was due ... er... to outsourcing).

Moral: less is more

Cripes mate, you're hard work arn't you. he he?

peter f · Post by **peter f** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:00 am

Good start (you can't teach an old dog ... blah blah).

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2013/02/06/m ... -oil-leak/

ned1 · Post by **ned1** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:53 am

peter f wrote:Good start (you can't teach an old dog ... blah blah)

Seems you can teach new dogs old tricks...................

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2012/10/16/m ... ake-fluid/
I got a recall for on my K1300s 2012 about two weeks ago for what seems to be the same problem as in the link above .

unbelievable
Ned