WONT START

[Hay Ewe^]

Evening all

I checked the search function, but my search fu is weak this morning.

2001 R1100S wouldnt start this morning (monday).
Saturday it was running just fine, a few trips out and about
Thursday and friday were fine as well.

The bike has not run for a few weeks, I had been riding my 1150GS. The 1100S was not being used as the battery had gone flat and its a bitch to change the battery, as well, it didnt fit my program.
But I have to do some service and maintenance on GS so I swapped the battery from the GS to the S and it was running sweet as

Sunday I didnt start it but I did remove the pannier racks and top box rack / frame.

This morning, it wouldn't start.
Key on, lights on, fuel pump primes, ABS makes a noise after a few secounds - sounds normal
Press the start button - nothing
No noise, nothing from the starter motor, no sound of clicking or attempted latching of relays.

The battery is 14 months old and showed no sign of failing.

I would like to try a jump start, but connected to the battery, which as you know is a bitch to get to.
I have checked the kill switch and the side stand switch as well.

This has got me stumped a bit.
I tried to find a fuse diagram as its always best to start with the simple things, but I cant find a fuse diagram / lable

Any suggestions / help / guidance from the collective?
Thanks

[nab 301]

If You can remove the starter cover I would see if you're getting juice to the solenoid and then work back , there is a starter relay and load relief relay in the circuit.
Relay and fuse boxes are behind the fairing panels...
L/H , the starter motor relay is second from the front , load relief relay is in the R/H side 3rd relay from the front.

[Jeff Highland]

My normal diagnosis procedure is to pull everything apart, breaking something in the process, and then find that the kill switch is engaged or the kickstand down.

[Hay Ewe^]

My normal diagnosis procedure is to pull everything apart, breaking something in the process, and then find that the kill switch is engaged or the kickstand down.

LOL, yep, already checked the usual suspects, kill switch and side stand.
Likely this evening I shall get in to it and pull the battery and try the battery in the GS.
I am suspecting that the battery has dropped a cell.

[Hay Ewe^]

Too embarassing to tell why the S bike wouldn't start

[Hay Ewe^]

I checked the wire diagram and start with the simple things.
What could not be making a contact?
I had already checked the side stand switch.
I pulled in the clutch lever, pressed the start button..... WOW! Whats that noise!

Holy Dooly - it started!

[SP250]

In gear??

[stevesilver]

Wish I could help, I have the same ish problem, only the fuel pump doesnt prime, as well as starter not working.
Everything else works as it should except the bloody bike dont run

[Grip Fast]

I have no experience of the 1100s, but I had a similar sounding issue with my 12S (running fine one day, won't turn over the next morning). The 12S has a gear selection indicator, and it can get out of sync with the actual gear. Even if the bike is actually in neutral, if the selection indicator (or I suppose more accurately, the detector at the back of the gearbox) thinks the bike is in gear, it won't turn over.

On the very rare (touch wood) occasions that this happens, I go up and down through the gears a couple of times until the detector gets back in sync with the actual gear, and off we go.

[Hay Ewe^]

Yep, it was in gear (as i posted above)

[Hay Ewe^]

I have no experience of the 1100s, but I had a similar sounding issue with my 12S (running fine one day, won't turn over the next morning). The 12S has a gear selection indicator, and it can get out of sync with the actual gear. Even if the bike is actually in neutral, if the selection indicator (or I suppose more accurately, the detector at the back of the gearbox) thinks the bike is in gear, it won't turn over.

On the very rare (touch wood) occasions that this happens, I go up and down through the gears a couple of times until the detector gets back in sync with the actual gear, and off we go.

Over the years, since 2004 I have read up extensivly on the 1150 (mostly GS) and to an extent the 1100 (also mostly GS) but fortunatly, to a good extent, the 1100 and 1150 are all pretty much the same, jsut different frames / fairings / wheels, the basics underneath are very similar.

I have not heard of this happening on the 1100 or 1150 so must be perculier to the 1200 series.

[Hay Ewe^]

Wish I could help, I have the same ish problem, only the fuel pump doesnt prime, as well as starter not working.
Everything else works as it should except the bloody bike dont run

Is this an 1100S?
Check your kill switch. If this is in the not-running position, it wont prime.
It may be in the correct run position, but could be a damaged wire or damaged switch.
Getting into the switch cluster on the bars to clean and check is possible, fiddaly and the plastics are snap together, but it is possible.
I needed to do it on my GS lasat year for the indicator cancel switch.

On the GS, there have been a number of cases where the looms are zip tied to the frame at the head stock area which causes wires to break. Could be a problem there.

As somebody above suggested, could be a fuse proplem or a starter relay problem.
Another possibility is that your battery is really flat.
Depending on your multimeter, it may be possible to get probes to the battery terminals. measure the voltage, attempt a start and see what it drops to.

remember - all ways start with the simple things first

[Hay Ewe^]

Another alternate reason that the 1100 or 1150 series wont start is that the magnets on the inside of the starter motor can come unstuck from the houseing.
the glue failes, the magnets stick to the armature and it jams.

It will sound as though a start is being attempted, but the armature cant turn over, resistance goes high and the motor gets hot.
Getting hot is your indication.
you will need to take the plastic cover off to check this properly / fully.

It is quite possible to get individual parts for these starter units, you dont have to buy a whole assembly from BMW or other supplier.
This mob in the USA have the parts
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/

This is an IPC (Illustrated Parts Cattledog) from MaxBMW for the starter system - useful for parts reference mostly, and to see how it goes together
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/ ... d=07242017

and this is a write up on how to strip the starter system from UKGSer (remember that they are all the same)
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread ... rter-Strip

As well, this starter motor system is also on some Moto Guzzi - I dont know which ones, I came across that reference when I was researching my problem a few years ago.

[stevesilver]

Wish I could help, I have the same ish problem, only the fuel pump doesnt prime, as well as starter not working.
Everything else works as it should except the bloody bike dont run

Is this an 1100S?
Check your kill switch. If this is in the not-running position, it wont prime.
It may be in the correct run position, but could be a damaged wire or damaged switch.
Getting into the switch cluster on the bars to clean and check is possible, fiddaly and the plastics are snap together, but it is possible.
I needed to do it on my GS lasat year for the indicator cancel switch.

On the GS, there have been a number of cases where the looms are zip tied to the frame at the head stock area which causes wires to break. Could be a problem there.

As somebody above suggested, could be a fuse proplem or a starter relay problem.
Another possibility is that your battery is really flat.
Depending on your multimeter, it may be possible to get probes to the battery terminals. measure the voltage, attempt a start and see what it drops to.

remember - all ways start with the simple things first

Thanks for the tips, my problem started with the alarm that I had to remove, as the internal battery had leaked over a circuit board and wouldnt turn off very well.
The alarm was a laserline and via their website I found a bloke who could make me a device that would plug into the alarm wiring to fool bike into thinking the alarm had never been there in first place.

This 1st device when plugged in seemed to work ok. Cant remember if I tried starting bike, but as I was checking everything I got to the right side indicators and once they were flicked on they wouldn't go off. Even turning ignition off would not turn them off. As soon as ignition turned on again they would light immediately, permanently on, not flashing.

The laserline bloke replaced the first device with another different one. Plugged it in and all seemed well, no indicator problem and all seemed fine. I very briefly started the bike. As bike is in the back of my shop I literally just let it fire up and immediately turned it off so as to not stink shop out.

2 weeks went by before I reassembled the bike. Thought I'd take it outside to take it around the bloke just to make sure all ok.

Bike started fine but sounded bloody awful, like it was full of nails, wouldn't rev properly, spluttering and backfiring and smoking badly.
I think the smoke was due to me cleaning and re-oiling K&N filter, as later inspection would reveal excess oil in air box. (hope so)

Anyhow I turned bike off with kill switch, which now like the indicators seems permanently on. When ignition is turned on now, everything works except fuel pump doesn't make a noise and engine doesn't turn over.

Laser guy wipes his hands of problem and says its my bike......

Since then I have traced back rejoined wires and removed all evidence of the alarm from the bike but its still the same.

Am waiting for a guy called Steve from croydon who is hopefully shit hot on electrics and highly recommended.

in meantime am open to suggestions.

I have no idea whats up as not only does bike not now run but when it last did it ran like a pile of shit

[Hay Ewe^]

mmmm
quite a conundrum, but like conundrums and magic tricks, if we can work out what the actions and causes are, we can find the solution.

I found this manual online - dont know if it is good for yours or not.
http://www.laserlinedirect.com/docs/862_USER_GUIDE.pdf

Some of the following you may already know, some you may have already checked, some might seem odd or stupid, lets see how we go!

I think there are two problems at the moment
1) the fuel pump doesnt prime / pump
2) the bike runs like a bag of spanners.

The first thing is to get the fuel pump to prime - obviously
Why isnt it running?
Could it be that the alarm system some how deactivates the fuel pump? being an FI engine, no fuel pump, no run.
How can we check this?
bike on centerstand, with the center stand tied to the exhaust cross over pipe (so it doesnt fall forward) (its easier on a center stand)
Remove the spark plugs from the cylinders (use the supplied spark plug tool - its thin wall and wont get jammed in the cylinder heads)
remove the front cover that is over alternator belt.
Ignition on
with a spanner or the supplied wheel brace, turn the crank, a few times. its easier with the plugs out, if you want to count to be sure, look through the timing hole in the right side engine case.
does the pump prime?
If the pump did prime, then we know that there is a signal from the HES (Hall Effect Sensor) to the pump - yay! thats good!

pump did not prime - well, we tested and tried.

Is there power supply to the pump?
remove the tank and test the pump. Identify the two wires to the pump, use a 12V batter and see if that works.
I have looked through the wire diagram and it only shows two black wires to the pump.
dont run the pump for too long, it needs fuel for pump cooling.
If you do this with the pump still in the tank - remember to catch the fuel in something!

Did the pump work / activate?
Yes - thats good
No - well, maybe thats the problem - Maybe. Change out the pump for a known good one, reconnect all the systems and attempt a start. It may run a bit like a bag of spanners to begin with as it is primeing the whole fuel system

If it did work when directly wired, next step is to remember to check the simple things first, we want to see if there is current getting to the pump
check the fuse for the fuel pump. Tricky thing for me right now is that I can't identify the the fuse - so check them all.
find a failed fuse? thats good, no, lets keep going.

here I just re-read your post and there is something about the kill switch.
I just checked mine and with the kill switch in the off position, and ignition on, the fuel pump doesnt prime till the kill switch is in the run position.

So if the fuel pump did run when wired directly to a power supply, we can suspect a wiring problem. At the moment I think we can eliminate the HES because the fuel pump should prime when ignition goes on.
and you have checked the fuses
Years ago, I exclaimed "SO many frigging wires!"
I think the next thing is to bypass the key / ignition switch
work down from the bottom of the ignition barrel, follow the wires to a connector block.
Un plug it and then put a jumper between the red and green wires - a jumper is a piece of wire, not a kangaroo
what will this do for us?
tell us if the the ignition switch is faulty - is that any help in this situation - yeah, probably not

This is makeing my head start to hurt now, its wires, and options and possibilities - but all logic.

I shall post up the wire diagrams from the clymer manual next and then think about it some more, maybe somebody else will chime in with some ideas