bleeding fecking brakes

[Jason M]

OK... I haven't quite had to resort to the big twatting hammer but I can feel the urge to get it off the bench and beat my bike into a small ball, throw it in a skip then set fire to it whilst running round screeching and screaming like a maniac.. but it's close

These fecking brakes.... I've thought for a while they felt rubbish. Took them off and started messing about. Right caliper fine - works from the lever - no problemo. Pads half worn as expected. Left caliper pads hardly worn. Pistons moving freely no problemo. Pull the brake with no pads in and ....errr... nothing? Weird? Put some brake line pliers on the line and I can feel the pressure increase in the brake line when I pull the lever. Undo the hose from the caliper - same thing. eh Take bolt out the brake ORing on the end of the line and there is a load of rubber shit blocking the hole through the bolt How the feck did that get there?

Anyway, reassemble but try as I might I just cannot get these feckers to bleed for love nor money. I've bled both calipers and the bleed valve on the ABS (non servo so should be no problem) but do I get firm brakes - do I KNOB! I've been at it for ages with no luck. You can firm up the brakes by clamping the brake line with the lever in then letting it out, but it soon returns to soggy useless mode.

I'm very very annoyed indeed. Any (obvious) ideas please?

[_IT_]

bit of rubber wasnt the seal from the master cylinder was it? not sure if they could make it past the abs pump or not ?

[oyster]

I sympathise. I had 1999 ABS and learned how to do it, fitted stainless braided hoses within a couple of weeks of getting the bike, but still ripped the 6Kg of dead weight out.
The detritus blocking the pipe may well be the remains of a seal in the system somewhere - very bad news. Or at best the inner walls of the original hose may be failing? Never heard of that before though.
To bleed brakes, get the tank off. Bleed the ABS unit rear circuit first. Dont know why, it's what the book said. Then the rear calliper. Then the front circuit ABS followed by the calliper.
Get a vacuum brake bleeder, about £40, but WELL worth the cost.
Air bubble hangs in the joint near the headstock where the front flexible joins the rigid pipe. And at the front master cylinder banjo bolt. I released the pipe mounts and tapped and encouraged the air bubble to move towards the calliper. I also removed the right handlebar and carefully tilted it so the air would head for the resovoir from the pipe while gently pumping. It worked. Be mindful when pulling the lever with the resovoir cap off a fountain of brake fluid will errupt from the resovoir - get ready to wash it off plastic or paint.
As I said, I now have a pair of Goodridge stainless running from the master cylinder direct, one to each calliper. No ABS and dont miss it. I dont go out in bad weather.

[Jason M]

Cheers Boys - Yea, the rubber doesn't sound good! As for the vacuum bleeder - yep, used that too. No bubbles coming through the system at all and I must have put about 200ml of fluid through too. I think the hoses might be the way to go. The ABS hasn't worked for about 50k anyway. I'm starting to wonder if the bike is worth all the trouble though to be honest. Perhaps she's best left abandoned to the spiders in the corner of the garage

[herrman]

Hi Jason,
Of course that bike is worth it!!! To many memories there to stick in the corner. I would be junking all the ABS kit (my first S had ABS and I tried to bleed it--NIGHTMARE) and fitting new hose's all round. Hope you get it sorted soon-- Shall we see you in Wales? Not that much of an early start for you to arrive for 10am!!!!

Regards Peter.

[oyster]

BTW, I believe Buster's do a good price on hoses, about £50 the pair? You will also need a double length banjo bolt. And another bottle of DOT4.

[Jason M]

Hi Jason,
Of course that bike is worth it!!! To many memories there to stick in the corner. I would be junking all the ABS kit (my first S had ABS and I tried to bleed it--NIGHTMARE) and fitting new hose's all round. Hope you get it sorted soon-- Shall we see you in Wales? Not that much of an early start for you to arrive for 10am!!!!

Regards Peter.

Alright Peter mate. Wales - I'll have to take a look at the dates. Hadn't thought about it TBH. Gotta get at least one of the bikes in a condition when it's roadworthy for over a flippin week at the moment!

Jason

[Me-109]

The detritus blocking the pipe may well be the remains of a seal in the system somewhere - very bad news. Or at best the inner walls of the original hose may be failing? Never heard of that before though.

Now you mention it, I did have this happen on a car a couple of years ago. Outwardly the hoses looked fine, but the brake-testing machine said it was pulling unevenly. Collapsing internally was the verdict and so it was proven with a new line. Darn sight cheaper on a car - assuming you can separate the rigid and flexible lines and don't end up having to remake the rigid parts as well. Ok, they're still quite cheap but a right faff.

At the first sign of trouble the ABS on mine is headed skip-ward.