Stupid question about valve play

[SP250]

I'm struggling to see what the problem is in the previous posts - there is an adjuster on each valve so they can be set independantly of each other.

Also I don't understand why "4 feelers in at the same time" comment.
Surely the inlet and exhaust cams should be on their respective base circle to check the valve clearances.
So although the can both be closed at the same time (on compression stroke) they cannot both be on the base circle of the cam at the same time.

Or do you lot know something that is not in the manual?

[Corvus]

I'm struggling to see what the problem is in the previous posts - there is an adjuster on each valve so they can be set independantly of each other.

Also I don't understand why "4 feelers in at the same time" comment.
Surely the inlet and exhaust cams should be on their respective base circle to check the valve clearances.
So although the can both be closed at the same time (on compression stroke) they cannot both be on the base circle of the cam at the same time.

Or do you lot know something that is not in the manual?

You read the manual? Surely that's cheating?

[SP250]

Yea must be my feminine side coming out!
Oh and 40+ years of working on engines both race and road.

[Corvus]

I'm struggling to see what the problem is in the previous posts - there is an adjuster on each valve so they can be set independantly of each other.

Also I don't understand why "4 feelers in at the same time" comment.
Surely the inlet and exhaust cams should be on their respective base circle to check the valve clearances.
So although the can both be closed at the same time (on compression stroke) they cannot both be on the base circle of the cam at the same time.

Or do you lot know something that is not in the manual?

Ok. Your missus locked you in the shed. (Happens to everyone, right?) So you decide to pass the time you'll set the valve clearances. You left the manual indoors but you can remember the clearances anyway.

Damn, you've also left the feeler gauges indoors, but luckily you have a dial test indicator.

How do you do it?

[SP250]

Get shot of the missus and just let the girlfriend round when I finish in the garage, unless she wants to hand me the spanners and make the tea.

[Corvus]

Get shot of the missus and just let the girlfriend round when I finish in the garage, unless she wants to hand me the spanners and make the tea.

He he.

Your feminine side didn't last long.

[SP250]

Yea it usually gets overtaken by the GOM side (Grumpy Old Man) of which I am a fully paid up member.

[Corvus]

Can the elephants feet be rotated freely with ones fingers?

Edit: can they be rotated freely with the fingers, when the respective cam is on base circle and there is some clearance at the valves? I'm assuming they can then be rotated freely.

What I'm driving at is a reliable and easy method of setting the clearances by a DTI as an option to feeler gauges. Or even as a method of double checking DTI vs feeler measurements.

[SP250]

Corvus
Why do you want to do the job with a DTI? Using feelers is easier and you don't have to mount the DTI on the heads - not saying it can't be done but I don't see the point.
Keep it simple for me.

[Tapio]

hi Tapio, i have exactly the same issue as you re checking clearance i.e. nowhere apparent to insert feelers, one thing that does come to mind though , is the valve gear show in the picture of a boxer cup rep or is it common to all 1100s engines, i refer to the double domed fitting between the valve stem and the rocker adjuster ?

Done the adjustment now. Last time, I couldn’t see what the cap looked like properly, but today I saw that the cap is not hollow on the valve side, but the surface is flat. And that’s where your feeler gauge goes.

[ceepee]

thank the good lord , at last Tapio, so the elephants foot is not as shown in your picture guide but flat at one end, i'm now almost on the same wave length as you stalwarts !!

[Droptarotter]

The technical term for the captive cups is;

Elephant Feet

Cheers

.....and in German please......

Elefantenfusse..........but my keyboard won't let me type the little dots above the "U" and the "SS" should be a funny "B"

Cheers

[Corvus]

hi Tapio, i have exactly the same issue as you re checking clearance i.e. nowhere apparent to insert feelers, one thing that does come to mind though , is the valve gear show in the picture of a boxer cup rep or is it common to all 1100s engines, i refer to the double domed fitting between the valve stem and the rocker adjuster ?

Done the adjustment now. Last time, I couldn’t see what the cap looked like properly, but today I saw that the cap is not hollow on the valve side, but the surface is flat. And that’s where your feeler gauge goes.

That's almost what I'd imagined. Flat underneath, but I'd imagined the inside might be spherical. I thought that if the inside were flat, what has been gained? Perhaps the component doesn't serve the purpose I'd imagined.

[Corvus]

Corvus
Why do you want to do the job with a DTI? Using feelers is easier and you don't have to mount the DTI on the heads - not saying it can't be done but I don't see the point.
Keep it simple for me.

Mainly just to see if it is possible. A thought experiment. An indulgence.

I saw the DTI on tapio's first post and my initial thought was "good idea". Then I realised, as pointed out by herb, that once you'd set the first screw, it wouldn't possible to set the second. Then I pondered on the problem just for the sake of a challenge to see if I could reason my way out. I think I have a method using the DTI.

But maybe there is a practical reason for giving the DTI consideration, on higher mileage bikes. At some point, there may be a possibility that the flat base of the elephant feet (EF) become indented by the hammering onto the valve stem. The diameter of the EF base looks larger than that of the valve stem? If this were to happen then you wouldn't realise this, using the feeler gauge because the flat feeler gauge would contact the top of the valve stem and the lowest (unworn) portion of the EF, but it would miss the concave (worn) portion. Of course, all assuming that this might occur in the first place.

Under that circumstance it would give a false reading. But how to do it?

At least, if we can find a way, the DTI would serve as an occasional check for this possibility. Anyone with an inquisitive mind (me!) might just use the DTI for no other reason than to see if the readings agree with the feeler gauge. I'm not paranoid, don't misunderstand me. Just inquisitive.

[SP250]

Good points well made.
However the "elephants feet" if anything like the ones I have seen in other engines (first one a Triumph Trident in the 70's) should rotate in operation.

In addition they move in an arc centered on their pivot so the action of pressing down the valve stem moves them in a line of contact "wiping" across the top of the valve stem. Combined with their slow rotation the wiping action means that a hollow doesn't get worn and should wear evenly and stay flat.

Any high mileage bikes would show the problem and be reported on here.