Not a nice video

[Davey Bee]

http://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsandeve ... nched.aspx
Sorry this is really not nice, but hopefully it will help us to ride a little more awareness.

[Gromit]

This video's gone viral on Facebook and it's made for some 'interesting' comments (to put it mildly) from both sides of the fence as to who is to 'blame'. Many folk have gone for no-holes-barred condemnation of the Renault driver. The way I see it - rightly or wrongly...

The bottom line (imho) is that it's a truly dreadful crash, the emotional carnage from which the families of both rider and driver will suffer for a long, long time - my heart genuinely goes out to them. I've watched this video over and over again and done a little homework. The bike is obviously a Yam FJR1300 and if you Google some images of an FJR's dashboard, you'll see the speedo needle is pointing near enough vertically - that's around 100mph.

David didn't back off when entering the junction area, and had been overtaking a car previous to this very closely (nearside of centre lines) which would have made him less visible to on-coming traffic. I'm not for one second letting the car driver off - he/she should've looked out for the bike. However, also not for one second was David making any preparation for what *might* happen. As we all know as experienced motorcyclists, presumption of another road-user's behaviour is a very dangerous way to ride a bike. I've been riding bikes 33 years this year and yes, I've done some bloody daft things in that time, but have hopefully learnt from them (and still trying to learn!) but every time I watch this video clip I'm just shouting out 'FOR PITY'S SAKE SLOW DOWN DAVID!!!'

So terribly, terribly sad.

Respect to David's Mum for allowing the video to be published - that's taken a lot of courage to do so.

[Davey Bee]

I echo every word you have just said. Like you I've been riding for 40 years and done some dick head things. My approach to riding now is to ride in a way that expects other road users to do the unexpected. I can't change that, but I can change the way that I ride. Therefore near misses and accidents are my responsibility, not the other road users, regardless of what they did to contribute to the situation. It seems to work, far less near misses, and my road rage has also declined.

[Gromit]

Near misses and accidents are my responsibility, not the other road users, regardless of what they did to contribute to the situation. It seems to work, far less near misses, and my road rage has also declined.

Nail > Head.

Riding/driving psychology is an extremely interesting topic, and one which Andy Morrison touched upon when I had a one-to-one training day with Rapid Training a few years ago. He also spoke about road positioning - not just for the 'dynamic' stuff like how to take bends better, but also how to position ourselves as motorcyclists, making us more visible to other road users, enabling us to react to situations more easily - and earlier too.

[JoeyDeacon]

I saw this a couple of days ago and I still can't understand why he was approaching that junction with all of those potential hazards at that speed. Seriously, approaching a T junction with waiting traffic at 100mph? What was he bloody thinking? I'm not perfect, I know I'm not and I speed, almost all of the time, but what he did was utterly, utterly reckless. If he was doing half the speed he may have got away with a few broken bones (I say that lightly obviously) rather than his life. As for the car driver..

Shocking video all round really, made me sit back and think I must admit.

[Grip Fast]

Agree with what's been said. I couldn't watch it all - hit the stop button as soon as he shouted, "no". Still shook me.

[Corvus]

It was shown on national tv news late last night. No sound and they stopped the film just before impact.

[boxerscott]

Tragic, poor Mum. David was unlucky. Shit happens. Stay safe everyone. Compelling viewing though. I watched it several times last night on returning home from taking beverage and I had to watch it again first thing this morning. I know that road is busy and like most roads from Lincolnshire heading into Norfolk are flat, straight and long with lots of junctions and this scenario is common.

IMHO there ought to be a prosecution of some kind against the driver, in the least driving without due care and attention.

Would not want to be in the drivers shoes that impact will haunt him for life.
and thank you mum for your dignified presentation.

[slparry]

This video's gone viral on Facebook and it's made for some 'interesting' comments (to put it mildly) from both sides of the fence as to who is to 'blame'. Many folk have gone for no-holes-barred condemnation of the Renault driver. The way I see it - rightly or wrongly...

The bottom line (imho) is that it's a truly dreadful crash, the emotional carnage from which the families of both rider and driver will suffer for a long, long time - my heart genuinely goes out to them. I've watched this video over and over again and done a little homework. The bike is obviously a Yam FJR1300 and if you Google some images of an FJR's dashboard, you'll see the speedo needle is pointing near enough vertically - that's around 100mph.

David didn't back off when entering the junction area, and had been overtaking a car previous to this very closely (nearside of centre lines) which would have made him less visible to on-coming traffic. I'm not for one second letting the car driver off - he/she should've looked out for the bike. However, also not for one second was David making any preparation for what *might* happen. As we all know as experienced motorcyclists, presumption of another road-user's behaviour is a very dangerous way to ride a bike. I've been riding bikes 33 years this year and yes, I've done some bloody daft things in that time, but have hopefully learnt from them (and still trying to learn!) but every time I watch this video clip I'm just shouting out 'FOR PITY'S SAKE SLOW DOWN DAVID!!!'

So terribly, terribly sad.

Respect to David's Mum for allowing the video to be published - that's taken a lot of courage to do so.

agreed, too much speed in an area that was inappropriate for that level, allied to a disregard for what may reasonably expected to happen at that point. We've all done it I guess, but hopefully nowadays would know better.

Despite the speed being a contributory factor I appreciate "why" the judge made the decision he did as the Highway Code is explicit along the lines of "you should not cause another road user to alter speed or direction".

Yes the bike was exceeding the speed limit, however that in itself is not dangerous, what caused the danger was the driver failing to make proper observation and judgement, being a modern bike the headlights would be on so he had no excuse not to have "seen" the bike.

[JoeyDeacon]

Yes the bike was exceeding the speed limit, however that in itself is not dangerous, what caused the danger was the driver failing to make proper observation and judgement, being a modern bike the headlights would be on so he had no excuse not to have "seen" the bike.

Sorry, disagree completely. Nearly 100mph on a straight empty road in broad daylight isn't particularly dangerous, doing it on an NSL with other traffic and approaching a T junction is stupidly dangerous, to yourself and others. Both of them were to blame, the car driver alone didn't cause the danger, they both did and if he was doing half the speed he might have got away with it.

[f90x]

I saw this, this morning and was very affected by it. I think that anyone who rides will be affected by it more than anyone that doesn't, as most of us will have had an 'OH' moment at some stage of our riding lives. I think there is blame with both parties. The car driver clearly wasn't paying the attention that he should have been, but my god that bike was going way too fast for the road situation. Given that he had been riding for 22 years one would think he had enough experience to know the dangers of a junction like that. Especially when traffic can turn across his path. Personally I'd have been braking almost as soon as I'd got past that car. Tragic, and a lesson for 'all' motorists/motorcyclists

[slparry]

Yes the bike was exceeding the speed limit, however that in itself is not dangerous, what caused the danger was the driver failing to make proper observation and judgement, being a modern bike the headlights would be on so he had no excuse not to have "seen" the bike.

Sorry, disagree completely. Nearly 100mph on a straight empty road in broad daylight isn't particularly dangerous, doing it on an NSL with other traffic and approaching a T junction is stupidly dangerous, to yourself and others. Both of them were to blame, the car driver alone didn't cause the danger, they both did and if he was doing half the speed he might have got away with it.

You misunderstand what I mean Joey I mean the speed isn't an issue in the right place and circumstances. That wasn't the right place or circumstance

[JoeyDeacon]

Ah, my mistake - sorry!

[kfrogzx7]

I'm shocked that with 22 yrs of biking experience behind him this situation didn't set off deafening alarm bells in his helmet !
Of course the video is a salutary warning to all road users, and as such it's release is probably justified, but I can't help thinking that it reflects badly on the motorcycling community in the general public's opinion.
The car driver obviously made a horrendous mistake in a moment of poor judgement and concentration ( something that many people will identify with ) but the motorcyclist was behaving in the stereotypically reckless way for a sustained period.
What was he thinking of ... ?
I'm a great advocate, as I'm sure most of us on this forum are, of the IAM / Police policy of defensive riding.
( ie continuous assessment, and negation of, every potential hazard on every ride. )
There's a great deal of satisfaction to be gained at the end of an exciting ride in the knowledge that you couldn't have done it more safely.

[Davey Bee]

The real problem seems to be a lot of dick waving amongst bikers. Hang around any bike meet for a little while, and you'll hear all the heros, with their tales of how they put a two mile gap between themselves and Vallentino. And I'm not talking about 17-18 year olds. No these are grown men that should know a lot better.
A couple,of years ago I got friendly with a small group of lads, I was the younger of the group (at 55). I quickly made the decision, that while I enjoyed their company, I certainly would be riding with them. How right I was, by the end of that summer one was dead and another spent two weeks in ICU. None of it from natural causes!